I'm not familiar with this, but your last point was curious to me. Can you not have "radically traditional values" and be a single man living in a big city? Or at any rate, it's not respected, so these people you are talking about are pretending to not be single and not live in a big city?

Yeah that was probably confusing because I had a specific part of this culture in mind (trad homesteader). My point was that countercultures are often marked by the presence of posers, tagalongs, and idealists who don’t practice.

I think also that “trad” is an umbrella to which many hands hold.

Tradcath: traditional lifestyle Catholics

Trad homeschoolers: arguably some of the most steadfast and longest holding countercultures. They literally have children and raise them opposite or tangential to the current culture norms.

Trad Christian theonomist: complimentarian views on marriage, anti secular government, often homesteaders.

Trad chads: men pursuing lives of purity at any social cost. Staunchly opposed to todays hookup culture and LGBT influences.

>Trad chads: men pursuing lives of purity at any social cost. Staunchly opposed to todays hookup culture and LGBT influences.

I see this becoming the norm in the future. Hook up culture is simply too dangerous (for both men and women) to be sustainable long term. It's a cultural hangover from the days of "free love" that simply does not map to the modern world anymore.

Sound like incels, not chads by choice.

This is what makes it counter culture:

If you say you support traditional values, you immediately get insulted as an “incel” or similar.

IMO Incels tend to be people who would, at the first chance, jump at the opportunity to become sexually active. Additionally, incels tend to not value monogamy nor are strictly heterosexual. The inherent value of the individual they're pursuing is also different. This group tends to have a very low view of women (and men too, to some degree) as individuals with meaning, purpose, thoughts and emotions. There is a notable lack of care for personhood.

TC would be different in that the premise is opposite, that they're pursuing heterosexual monogamy and are voluntarily foregoing a life of sexual promiscuity in light of that pursuit. This group highly values the person they're pursuing and places a high degree of respect on the opposite gender.

> IMO Incels tend to be people who would, at the first chance, jump at the opportunity to become sexually active.

It's literally in the name: involuntary celibate

>It's literally in the name: involuntary celibate

I've always taken issue with that term. Any guy who bathes, doesn't say mean things, tries to make himself more attractive, doesn't consider a woman unattractive because she isn't an 8+, and learns to strike up a conversation with the opposite sex will find someone sooner or later.

I don't know much about them, but people presented as incels generally seem unwilling to put much effort into any of that. If I had sat at home all day, played video games and really let myself go, does that make it involuntary or just lazy?

> but people presented as incels

Originally it was a label they chose for themselves because they couldn't figure out why they kept getting rejected. It was only later outsiders caught on, then turned it into an insult. Beyond that I also don't know very much.

> Any guy who bathes, doesn't say mean things, tries to make himself more attractive, doesn't consider a woman unattractive because she isn't an 8+, and learns to strike up a conversation with the opposite sex will find someone sooner or later.

And if he doesn't, clearly it must be because he isn't trying hard enough amirite?

There are plenty of guys out there who listen to what they're being told (which is hard, because there's a lot of contradictions), try as hard as they can, and yet can't find anyone.