The real issue was pointed out by the professor herself, that only attractive women were being offered tutoring and getting attention. The ones complaining were jaded by the competition.

I don't see how there is any issue with this if the men were respectful and didn't actually make unwanted advances. Why does the professor (a woman) feel like women are stupid, or need to be coddled? I can't think of anything more disrespectful to empowering women than assuming they don't possess the agency to make calculated decisions on their own.

She specifically said that some of the upperclassmen were helping run the labs which sounds like it would benefit everyone.

A smug upperclassmen != Good teacher

I took that as within their lab groups. As-in sitting with their group of 4 or so, they led the group work.

Honestly, whatever their motives, that kind of interaction is what group work is for. Having students that can lead and communicate with peers is invaluable.

This works great until someone rejects their advances and in retaliation the male student (who is auditing the class so they have no consequences for failure) sabotages the female student's labs and therefore their grade.

You're fabricating a scenario that even the professor wasn't so absurd to propose.

The professor was simply stating what they observed. I am extrapolating on the possible problems that'd arise in this environment and what I am suggesting isn't really that absurd.

As a male student during my years in undergrad, I had 2 different instances of team members/partners who outright stated they would not cooperate and would just fail the lab/project unless I did XYZ thing for them. In the 2 cases I remember it was basically "do most of my work for me" despite barely having enough time to complete my own portions. To add onto this, professors often repeated in my courses that "it's your responsibility to make group/pair work succeed" and that students would need to pick up the slack for any deficiencies in the team/pair. To their credit, I occasionally had professors who graded work per team member to prevent this type of leaching but often the answer the professor would give the class was that learning how to pick up the slack was just part of the course.

It isn't much of a leap to see this kind of "if you don't cooperate we can just fail" behavior from someone who already has no academic penalty for failure (as audits don't have final grades) and who joins the class explicitly to try to get laid.

As someone who was a young female CS major half a lifetime ago, thanks for sticking your neck out to explain this to your fellow fellows.

Reminds me of the Rush Limbaugh joke - “ Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream.”

stunning and brave, queen.

Let's change the subjects from "horny upperclassmen" to "MLM representatives that want to get new suckers". Would you be fine with going to a class where a significant percentage of people are trying to get you to sell Amway products? And they don't give a damn about the class?

I mean, yeah? If it turned into harassment then no, but the post itself says that's not happening.

How is this any different from Bob talking your ear off about some hobby that he has that you have absolutely zero interest in? You just don't listen or tell him directly you don't care. This thread makes me feel like I'm going insane, this is basic human interaction.

Let's say there's 20 Bobs in your class, and they are pushy, not pushy because that would be harrasment ;) Also the Bobs don't give a shit about the class, they just got in to talk about [INSERT ANNOYING HOBBY].

It's totally okay if you say something that's totally not equivalent.

The specific numbers would make a big impact, and it depends alot on what we define as 'harassment'.

Is it 20 among a class of 600? Or is it 20 among a class of 50? How pushy are they about it? Do they stop if I tell them I don't care once? twice? twenty?

These are all relevant questions but it feels like many folks are automatically treating it as if they make up half the class and they're doing the absolute maximum amount that's just under what would be considered 'harassment'.

For what it's worth, most of the people in my college classes (including myself often) didn't give a shit about any part of the class except for the grade.

Worth considering that with the post in question, these male students are auditing the class so in general they have no consequences if they fail. They are there solely for the purpose of trying to sleep with younger female students and need to place no consideration on their academics.

And as for how pushy they are, according to the author, these male students are trying to take on a perception of authority (acting like instructors/TAs during classes) which implies some amount of attempted coercion (whether explicit or implicit) is likely taking place.

This type of power dynamic is really dangerous and it's a matter of time before somebody particularly scummy takes part and ends up victimizing one of the female students who are actually trying to pass the class.

> Let's say there's 20 Bobs in your class, and they are pushy, not pushy because that would be harrasment ;) Also the Bobs don't give a shit about the class, they just got in to talk about [INSERT ANNOYING HOBBY].

I don't mind - I can say "No" 20 times in a single day and then be left alone for the rest of the semester.

> Would you be fine with going to a class where a significant percentage of people are trying to get you to sell Amway products? And they don't give a damn about the class?

Yes?

I'm capable of saying no, even aggressively when people don't get the hint. I've even done it in the past, numerous times.

Would you find their behaviour acceptable? Would you find it positive?

What "behaviour" are we talking about? Sounds like they simply exist and are in the same room as me.

> Would you be fine with going to a class where a significant percentage of people are trying to get you to sell Amway products?

Yes, absolutely. If they are getting in the way of my ability to focus by talking to me about Amway products, then no. Likewise, if they ask after class "Hey, wanna buy some Amway?" and I refuse, that's fine -- one bite of the apple is reasonable. If they keep asking me if I want to buy Amway, then that becomes a problem.

A bunch of people with any ulterior motive in my class are fine with me. Those people not respecting my motives (learning) is the issue.

MLM representatives can't be friendzoned. MLM representatives won't teach me a thing.