And usually a position of sacrifice. Therefore, it’s pretty respected over here and making a false claim is pretty taboo.

Definitely taboo enough to get you chewed out, and almost enough to risk a physical altercation.

I once ran a 5K as part of an Army fundraiser. It was for civilians. The Army gave every runner a T-shirt with the Army logo very prominent.

Someone asked me when I was in the Army and not thinking about why they asked I just said I wasn’t.

They almost started to chew me out until I mentioned it was given to me as part of an Army sponsored fundraiser.

Reminds me of a time in 7th grade when I wore a band t-shirt that I had received as a gift. A kid in my class took exception because he doubted that I even owned any of their albums. The kid called me a "poser".

It also makes me think of my uncle who is a very proud labor union member. He gets upset if anyone says anything disparaging about labor unions.

My point is, it sounds to me like people taking honor in being a member of an exclusive club, and they don't like it if other people do things to belittle their club membership, like by pretending to be a member.

I wonder if there is some psychological term for that behavior.

Maybe it falls more under group dynamics/sociology. Interesting question.

Your comment is rather offensive. Stolen valor is a crime. Wearing a band t-shirt while not listening to the band is not. Military members risk their lives for others. People that do this get respect, be it a Dr, Military, Police, etc.

> Stolen valor is a crime.

A civilian wearing an army T-shirt is not “stolen valor” in the sense that stolen valor is a crime, so this is, at best, equivocation.

While I believe (but I don’t feel like checking the UCMJ) there is a much more extensive crime (or set of crimes) relating to stolen valor within the military, the crime of stolen valor that it is possible for a civilian to commit consists of, and (outside of selling military decorations) only of, fraudulently claiming one of narrow set of awards with the intent to obtain money, property, or other tangible benefit, specifically: a Congressional Medal of Honor, a distinguished-service cross, a Navy cross, an Air Force cross, a silver star, a Purple Heart, a Combat Infantryman’s Badge, a Combat Action Badge, a Combat Medical Badge, a Combat Action Ribbon, a Combat Action Medal, or any replacement or duplicate medal for such medal as authorized by law. 18 USC Sec. 704.

I didn’t say a civilian wearing an army shirt is stolen valor, however pretending to haven been in the military while never having been is.

Wearing a band shirt and an army shirt are not comparable at all. The default thought when someone sees someone wearing a military shirt is “oh they were in the military”. The thought when wearing a band shirt certainly wasn’t “oh they must be in the who”.

> I didn’t say a civilian wearing an army shirt is stolen valor, however pretending to haven been in the military while never having been is.

Again, no, not in a sense of “stolen valor” where “stolen valor is a crime” is true, it isn’t. You are still engaging in thebsame equivocation where you are trying make an argument grounded in “this behavior has a name which is also the name of a crime”, even though the behavior in question is not within the scope of the definition of the crime. Fraud is a crime (older than “stolen valor”, which is a novel 21st century crime in the US), pretending to have been in the military other than as part of a fraud scheme is not. (ISTR at least one state has proposed a more general ban on this, but even if it passed it would likely be struck down aa violating the First Amendment, just like the earlier and somewhat broader version of the Stolen Valor Act was.)

> Wearing a band shirt and an army shirt are not comparable at all.

To the extent that there is a defensible argument for this position, it doesn't involve invocations of non-germane criminal law.

I apologize for making you feel offended. That was not my intent.

I wasn't trying to make light of the service of military members. I agree that it is wrong to try to obtain fake respect.

I was just recounting two specific tales from my memory about people being defensive against others disrespecting their social circles. I find the behavior interesting ... maybe because I have never felt that way before about something.

When I mentioned psychology, my curiosity was in the context of behavior psychology (what is the word used to describe the behavior), not in the context of a mental illness.

Incidentally, I did like the band's music, I just didn't own any of their albums.

> No matter what country you’re in, the military is in a position of authority

In the United States, the military has no authority over citizens. It's a foundational law. Exceptions can be made under temporary and unusual circumstances.

Authority isnt the word. Im in the military and that gives me absolutely zero authority in civilian life. It would be a crime for me to even attempt to wield such. But i do expect a modicum of extra respect for people who give up time/money/priviledges of civilian life in order to serve thier country. I dont expect cops to let me get away with speeding, but i do expect them not to detain me by the roadside in uniform for a "random" check.

I agree with you overall, but that "serve their country" line makes me cringe every time. The military's operations are vast and numerous, but also politically-motivated and, at times, disgustingly utilitarian. Obviously, no grunt should bear that burden, but I feel better served by the post office.

It is cringe worthy, but when you get orders for a multi-year posting far away from friends and family, it really does feel like servitude. It was -30 outside this morning. My car hates me for bringing it here.

Without a doubt, it is servitude, but I feel it downplays the plight of servicemen like yourself to roll it up into that "of country". The expended lives towards obtuse ends is far more tragic than that of something noble like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I wish you luck on your tour, wherever it is.

Do you think the soldiers should see themselves as capitalists in it for themselves?

Yes, because we all are by merit of participation alone, and servicemen are often baited into enlisting via capitalistic motivators (enlistment bonus, GI bill, insurance, etc.) We'd be dealing with reality, not the denial proliferated by force in boot camps.

Some people join the military to serve their country.

But everyone in the military is indoctrinated to believe that they are serving their country.

Some of them are shipped overseas. Some live in Virginia Beach. Some are physically endangered. Some sit behind a desk.

There are good and noble people who choose a life of service. Some of them are in the military. Some of them are food kitchen volunteers.

Not everyone in the military is noble, or serving their country. Any more than any other federal employee.

It's difficult to know the appropriate level of respect or honor to give to a random person displaying the paraphernalia of military service. "Thank you for your service" is free, and perhaps genuinely felt and received in some cases (but also vacuous at times).

I've worked with a lot of ex-military folks. And several members of my family are current or former members. I can't think of a single trait that is common to all of them.

Not physical fitness. Not leadership skills. Not honesty or honor or respectability. Not intelligence or grit or perseverance or fashion sense.

The median is probably higher than the average across the whole population. So there may be a correlation. Except fashion sense!

However this does not persuade me that there's a reason to differentially treat military vs random citizens in your example of a traffic stop. But I'm also not a cop!

Most like Top Gun?

> Not everyone in the military is noble, or serving their country. Any more than any other federal employee.

I stopped reading here. Every military member swore an oath. They have no choice of duty, but they still swore the same oath to die for their country. Anybody attempting to minimize their sacrifices should remember things like Pearl Harbor, which killed all indiscriminately. And remember that desks fit in tents fit on ships and in tents, which are themselves in active war zones.

Stripped down, this is an appeal to emotion.

It feels good and honorable to say, just like defending a member of your family. That is a goal of the mythology, and it works! It's a hell of a drug.

I don't intend to criticize the military -- combat or non.

But the psychology of it is fascinating.

You said a whole lot of nothing here. Tell me how those willing to die are somehow the same as someone not and it’s somehow psychological?

This seems like a psychological issue with some demanding they have given just as much, and are just as important, yet are too scared to pay the ultimate price.

Or how about the psychological issue that results in hatred towards the military? That one I witnessed personally and I find very interesting.

Some people love the Kool-Aid, some people drink it out of convenience, some people detest all sugary drinks on principle, and some people just find flavor chemistry to be fascinating.

There is professional curiosity amonst the "armed" professions. Being in the military also means, to a cop, that you probably dont have any warrants out of you and that you have a job, two things they cannot assume about the random people they interact with every day.

Sorry to be blunt, but you chose that life. There are vast numbers of people serving their country economically (albeit perhaps indirectly) in uncomfortable circumstances and they all deserve respect.

So what happens when nobody chooses that life? Will those contributing economically experience the safety they need to do their business?

Additionally how many business owners are willing to die for their business?

I disagree. I can't think of any western country where the military are in a position of authority. It's something we have got rid of over the past 50 years, with the end of the juntas in Greece, Spain, and Argentina; Franco's Spain; and so on. There are some countries where the military are not running the place, but are "kingmakers", but I can't think of any western ones.

Italy is such a western country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabinieri