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Re:Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering by schiffern on Thursday January 26, 2023 @04:33AM (#34529585)
> so it's ok to do experiments with the atmosephere of the people of Mexico?

So it's okay do do experiments with the atmosphere, as long as you re-brand them as "pollution" instead of as "experiments"?

(and of course, organizationally separate the scientists performing the data collection/analysis steps)

Re:Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering by MrOwnPut on Thursday January 26, 2023 @05:08AM (#34529828)
You answered his question with another question.

I believe your question is insinuating that pollution is branded as such and is really an experiment? I don't follow.. can you expand on that or clarify?

But first please answer their question before shifting the conversation.

Re:Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering by schiffern on Thursday January 26, 2023 @05:22AM (#34529944)
No, my point is that the atmosphere doesn't care what we call it. It's just a semantics game.

People care, but they care in such a backwards way that the rule is apparently "you can hurt, but don't you dare try to help!"

Clearly, if anything, the move is to re-brand geoengineering as "normal pollution". It wouldn't even be hard: every 737 emits 500 grams of SO2 in less than 100 miles, and not a peep!

Re:Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering by MrOwnPut on Thursday January 26, 2023 @05:50AM (#34530144)
You still didn't answer the original question posed to you by the GP, so I don't know your stance or line of reasoning.

And I dispute, "but don't you dare try to help", since you it's not known it helps.

These experiments / solar geo-engineering / terraforming may hurt.

There's justifications for Mexico to stop these experiments, do you agree or disagree?

Re:Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering by schiffern on Thursday January 26, 2023 @06:11AM (#34530271)
My stance is that GP is asking misleading questions that distract from the main issue (all-source emissions).

> And I dispute, "but don't you dare try to help", since you it's not known it helps.

The critical word is "try."

Apparently, the rule is that your intent is all that matters. If you're trying to profit, it's pollution and it's fine. If you intend to help, all hell breaks loose.

Exxon can burn down the world, but utter the words "geoengineering" and you can't so much as swat a fly.

I'm not saying this is logical or correct. I'm just saying that these appear to be the rules as constrained by (not always rational) public opinion.

> There's justifications for Mexico to stop these experiments, do you agree or disagree?

There are justifications both "for" and "against" (like any complex real-world issue), but the public debate has been extremely skewed.

Re:Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering by xwolfi on Thursday January 26, 2023 @08:22AM (#34531297)
Well it s not an experiment if it's pollution: it's a compromise. We know we degrade it, we dont know an alternative, or dont want to try.

An experiment is limited in time, serves no purpose but knowledge acquisition, and can fail. When you burn coal to heat your people, you're not gonna fail, and people are gonna last one more day, they can accept the compromise.

A foreign startup trying something before saying "sorry lol didnt work, good luck" is not gonna convince many to try.

Re:Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering by schiffern on Thursday January 26, 2023 @08:34AM (#34531410)
Yes, I know the definitions.

> A foreign startup trying something before saying "sorry lol didnt work, good luck" is not gonna convince many to try.

It won't seriously deter them either. The public outcry over even the attempt is a more concerning deterrent.

> When you burn coal to heat your people, you're not gonna fail

Tell that to Texas.

> people are gonna last one more day, they can accept the compromise.

This is the meat and potatoes right here.

Yes, people tend to overvalue immediate visible benefits and undervalue long-term costs (like the climate 100 years hence) or invisible benefits (like gaining scientific knowledge by performing insignificant-scale geoengineering tests).

People are irrational. This is known. We should strive to be less irrational.

Re:Mexico cracks down on solar geoengineering by ttyprintk on Thursday January 26, 2023 @09:29AM (#34531964)
I suspect choosing Mexico was deliberate. Mexico won’t mandate low-sulphur diesel for a few years. If the SO2 in the balloon happens to be sourced from diesel, then legally this is moving pollution using latex.