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Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by survirtual on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:07AM (#34488835)
They do it because they can. Because most employees are spineless and will fall in line.

People making the money we make in the tech industry should be living well below their means, saving, and supplanting the tech giants with worker-owned coops and guilds. If all tech workers united into guilds the corps would come begging us for technical contributions, and we would collectively charge up the ass for it — and all make 100% of the profits.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by twobitshifter on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:35AM (#34489206)
A union would force these layoffs to be justified well beyond what we see in these PR releases, however, the severance packages offered are very good for non-unionized labor. It makes me suspect that the loose association of programmers has latent power even if it’s not in a guild or union.
Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by htrp on Monday January 23, 2023 @10:03AM (#34489561)
More like if you cheap out on severance.... no one will ever come work for you without a significant comp premium
Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by coldpie on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:10AM (#34488885)
I agree. However, it's easy to post on HN, and much harder to do in practice. Do keep us posted if you make some progress in this direction. (This isn't sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested in that model.)
Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by survirtual on Monday January 23, 2023 @11:27AM (#34490902)
Agreed.

Generally, I think that the strategy will be some combination of technology, coop ownership, and worker insurance.

Technology, for making corporation killers. Making alternative tech stacks that make existing corporate offerings irrelevant and requiring a sort of ransom to keep the licenses non-competitive. This provides nuclear leverage.

Cooperative ownership to align the organizations objectives with individual workers. The profit is distributed in a relatively fair way without these 100x pay differences, in a manner members can all agree with, and planets away from only caring about enriching investors.

Worker insurance where the coop offers healthcare and minimum income guarantees between jobs with corps. When a member is working for a corp, it is expected the corp pays for their insurance etc. If the member leaves the corp, they seamlessly continue to have healthcare etc.

I think the first step to making something like this happen is creating an extremely valuable piece of tech that society cannot do without. That acts as a beacon to attract workers and provides leverage. With the appropriate legal framework around that, it would cascade from there.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by htag on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:16AM (#34488952)
In the days-of-old to gain a skill you needed an apprenticeship. To gain an apprenticeship you can to become a guild member. This created a moat, where only guild members were highly skilled.

How do you purpose to market guild labor over non-guild labor, especially at a time when anyone can earn a CS degree, publish open source, and right to work laws pepper the country.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by survirtual on Monday January 23, 2023 @11:34AM (#34491034)
Guild-owned technology, created with human-aligned intentions (as opposed to greed-aligned). Human-centric tech is superior to capital-centric tech.

Open source is basically this in a naive and unorganized way, especially when MIT licensed (a giant con in my opinion). GNU does much better. But if there existed a guild license connected to tech and patents that are must haves, it would tip the balance.

The guild would offer objective security to a worker — health insurance, income insurance, and legal backing, with intentions aligned entirely with the worker. It provides a behemoth aligned with maximizing the rights and income of a worker. That would do a whole lot in attracting people to join.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by htag on Monday January 23, 2023 @02:43PM (#34493888)
What is this guild license, and how does it differ from the current system of having private companies own software licenses, tech patents, and trade secrets?

It sounds to me like you're just describing a tech company.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by survirtual on Monday January 23, 2023 @04:19PM (#34495225)
It is a tech company but it is owned by specialized, skilled workers. It is a guild because tech workers are professional artisans. Guilds are an organization of skilled professionals which have quality certification for work, often times integrated with legal frameworks in a government.

Software needs to be elevated, credentialed, regulated, and more respected. This is what a guild would enable. But I think merging benefits of unions with the prestige of a guild would provide some needed innovation in that space.

Providing skilled professionals with an army of lawyers, professional insurance, income guarantees, healthcare, lead management, all with cooperative ownership, profit sharing, etc is a drastically different incentive structure than existing organizations.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by htag on Monday January 23, 2023 @07:04PM (#34497018)
I'll agree with you that I like the GPL License (I think you meant that, when you mentioned GNU) more than the MIT. I think we, at least broadly, agree on the definitions of Guild, Union, and Company.

You haven't convinced me that this is a thing desirable or plausible. You keep mentioning benefits that I feel I already have. You haven't convinced me that the technical output would be better than the current system. You haven't convinced me that there is a place for this in our current world, or that their is a reasonable growth path for the idea. In fact, the discussion is largely abstract. I wish you all the best with your idea, maybe there is something here than just isn't getting through to me right now.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by survirtual on Tuesday January 24, 2023 @01:24PM (#34507712)
The issue isn’t for people who are already proven within the system. The system compensates competent, compliant actors very well (although not at the level they deserve, far in excess of the norm).

The issue I am thinking about and solving for is the fact that I believe there are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of Einstein-level intellects who are completely unknown, under-utilized, and lost in the current system.

With the resources (including intellectual resources), we are far in excess of what is necessary to be a multiplanetary species. Yet here we all stand, upon our home planet, with minimal access to space except for a small exceptional few. It is a gross failing to be destroying this world with industrialization while there exists dead worlds with bountiful resources.

And that is the beginning of the problems. The current structure pays even top-level tech workers a pittance compared to the ruling class, and that ruling class has no vision for the future of humanity beyond their own wealth and prosperity. They are driving our kind and our world straight off a cliff to oblivion while utilizing the planetary resources for their own vapid pleasure and security.

Perhaps, if you cannot see why I say this, you may consider walking a mile in the shoes of common people. This planet is in need of a competent technical class with a collective mission of uplifting, enriching, and enlightening with technology. The technical class are the true leaders / managers of resources, and within it exist the means to maximize beneficial traits while minimizing destructive traits.

In any case, these are just words. I just hope that when paths open up, we all can recognize it and travel it.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by jstx1 on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:26AM (#34489094)
> most employees are spineless and will fall in line.

I don't get this. It's a layoff - what do you think not spineless and not falling in line looks like?

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by survirtual on Monday January 23, 2023 @11:15AM (#34490688)
“If you layoff Bob, I quit”

“If you do these layoffs, all of us will strike”

In other words, unified action among the workers that costs the business significantly more funds than the savings from laying people off.

That is one example of having a spine. There are countless others.

Re:Spotify to trim 6% of workforce, content head to depart by allochthon on Monday January 23, 2023 @09:16AM (#34488960)
Over the last decade I've had a similar thought and hope. Or at least the idea of working for an employee-owned and directed tech business (maybe on the model of REI?). Curious whether anyone knows of any successes in this area with respect to the tech industry?