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Re:Formalising a new proof that the square root of two is ir... by thaumasiotes on Thursday January 19, 2023 @04:54AM (#34438510)
There are some assumptions in there that you haven't made explicit. They're correct, but they make the proof feel a little "cheaper".

1. Let K be the set of positive integers {n: n√2 ∈ ℤ}

2. Supposing K is non-empty, denote its minimum as k.

3. Consider k' = k√2 - k = k(√2 - 1)

Lemma 1: k' < k

L1. When x > 1, √x < x. Therefore, √2 < 2, √2 - 1 < 1, and k' = k(√2 - 1) < k.

Lemma 2: k' is a positive integer

L2a: By hypothesis, k√2 ∈ ℤ.

L2b: By hypothesis, k is a positive integer.

L2c: The difference of any two integers is itself an integer, so k' ∈ ℤ.

L2d: When x > 1, √x > 1. Therefore, √2 > 1, k√2 > k, and so k' = k√2 - k > 0.

4. k'√2 = (k√2 - k)√2 = 2k - k√2 ∈ ℤ. Therefore, k' ∈ K.

5. This contradicts the assumption that k is the minimum element of K. Thus K must be empty.

To make this proof work, we needed some general information about the behavior of the square root function over the entire real domain. (Or, some special knowledge about the numerical value of √2, but from an elegance perspective that's even worse.) This is something you can easily get away with, but it's somewhat annoying. The proof based on "assume this rational number is represented in its simplest form, such that gcd(n,d) = 1" seems a little more self-contained.

Re:Formalising a new proof that the square root of two is ir... by rhn_mk1 on Thursday January 19, 2023 @06:42AM (#34439275)
Thanks, this is actually a much better description, especially 4. OP's description can be used to "prove" that 1/2 is irrational.
Re:Formalising a new proof that the square root of two is ir... by thaumasiotes on Thursday January 19, 2023 @07:45AM (#34439713)
> OP's description can be used to "prove" that 1/2 is irrational.

That won't work; in that case, k' will not be a positive number (k/2 - k is negative whenever k is positive), so you'll fail to produce a contradiction.

Re:Formalising a new proof that the square root of two is ir... by rhn_mk1 on Thursday January 19, 2023 @08:14AM (#34439915)
Fair enough. Take 3/2 in that case.
Re:Formalising a new proof that the square root of two is ir... by hgsgm on Thursday January 19, 2023 @08:39AM (#34440097)
Doesn't work, because in

    k * (3/2 - 1)(3/2) = k'(9/4) - k(3/2)
(3/2)^2 = 9/4 is not an integer, you don't get k' < K so there is no contradiction.

You'd only get an integer if 4 divides k', which doesn't happen, because

    k = 2 
and

    k' = k(3/2 -1) = k/2 = 1
Re:Formalising a new proof that the square root of two is ir... by rhn_mk1 on Thursday January 19, 2023 @09:03AM (#34440353)
Thanks, you're right. I missed that there was supposed to be a √2*√2 in the expansion of the last line.