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Re:Programmer Salaries in the Age of LLMs by AnimalMuppet on Monday January 16, 2023 @10:08PM (#34408697)
> But I don't think they've "solved" software engineering; they've only solved "what you boss thinks software engineering is".

That's still bad, though, because your boss makes hiring and salary decisions.

Maybe in the end it's a kind of "great filter" - companies and bosses that can't tell the difference don't survive. But a lot of good programmers can get fired before the clueless bosses die off...

Re:Programmer Salaries in the Age of LLMs by testtesttesst on Monday January 16, 2023 @10:30PM (#34408820)
That's capitalism. After you get fired, if you can still produce useful labor there will ideally be more employers waiting; you can freelance if your visa situation allows it; or you can start your own business and outcompete.

The cause of the inefficiency and "great filter" you're describing is the labor protectionism currently in the U.S.

Theoretically a good programmer has arbitrage via their skills and expertise. If you can get things done people will pay you for it, assuming you're allowed to work in the U.S. (or EU, etc.).

Re:Programmer Salaries in the Age of LLMs by sidlls on Monday January 16, 2023 @10:47PM (#34408906)
Theoretically rarely beats ignorance in practice though. Software engineers in aggregate think and act like they’re working in a meritocracy (we aren’t) and this gives even more leverage to management and owners. It’s one of the big reasons engineer salaries right now aren’t as high as they otherwise would be.
Re:Programmer Salaries in the Age of LLMs by testtesttesst on Monday January 16, 2023 @11:00PM (#34408969)
>Software engineers in aggregate think and act like they’re working in a meritocracy (we aren’t)

Not a meritocracy, a market. "Meritocracy" implies some kind of value judgement (ex: "they are paid fairly" or "paid what they're worth"). The fundamental question is about the labor market and its efficiency.

I'll argue: your value in the market -- as an experienced engineer worth $230K or whatever ridiculous thing it is now -- is if you can go somewhere else that's willing to pay you $230K+ for your labor. The reason salaries are this number (despite antitrust things like [1]) is that some people actually exercise this option and move to higher paying jobs. And most employment is at-will -- you can leave whenever you want. So the market is at least somewhat efficient in this sense.

But efficiency works both ways. If you think your labor is worth more than what your employer is paying you, then you have to prove it by asking the market.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust...

Re:Programmer Salaries in the Age of LLMs by tester457 on Monday January 16, 2023 @11:11PM (#34409034)
> Software engineers in aggregate think and act like they’re working in a meritocracy (we aren’t)

What is it really? Just an industry plagued by nepotism?