Sorry if it's gonna be a bit long.
First of all, a bit of context.
Maybe people forgot what the 80s where like, especially late 80s, especially in USA, maybe they forgot what being kids was like, maybe they were not even born when these things aired.
At the times trends for people were not dictated by young girls half naked on tik tok, but by "the American dream" that in the 80s was to be a yuppie, that the "manual" said were like this
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71D2rGrfMBL.jpg
but they were actually like this in reality
https://e.snmc.io/i/300/w/18fff75069e5b3ecfc6d558e0c59acd0/5...
"Lunch is for wimps."
As you can see, yuppies were successful people who played tennis, yuppie women were blonde, of course, usually they stayed home anyway, because their husbands made a ton of money, thanks to cocaine.
That was the culture US projected back then, that's why people of my generation reject the idea that USA are culturally relevant, except for punk, that was the last really interesting subculture that the US produced, but that's another story for another time.
If you don't believe it, here it is "Das Yuppie handbuch", German edition.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71cli3Z17VL.jpg
Secondly, the shows were not for kids, the shows audience were kids parents, in this case their dads or older brothers, who represented almost entirely the demographic of people who knew what Zelda was and who she was and that no, Zelda's not the guy on the covert art of the videogame box.
So it reflected an US centric male culture, like the fact that Mario is Italian because Japanese are (and were even more at the time) kinda obsessed with Italy, but in USA, being an Italian plumber, they made him sound like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eutK6k9D-Yk
He starts saying "Hey paesano" which is an idiomatic phrase mainly used in the South of Italy, that nobody uses anymore since a long time ago and those who did where simply mocking very old ways. I haven't heard it since I was a kid, in the late 70s. Of course Mario being Italian with black moustache must be from Naples, right? and he obviously knows how to make a pizza, right? every Italian know how, even if they are plumbers.
This basically to say that in USA those products were a reflection of the culture people were living in, men were assholes, Italians were Italo-Americans not real Italians, Chinese lived in Chinatowns and Japanese took pictures of everything.
The good news is, kids don't get the references.
As an example, my nephew she's 4 years old and she watches Masha and the Bear, which is a Russian product BTW. There's an episode where Bear encounters a female bear and wants to know her. He takes some flowers and a box of chocolates and goes to introduce himself. While he's going Masha realizes that Bear has chocolates and wants to eat them so she tries every trick on the book and in the end she eats them all and Bear is left with no more chocolates to bring to his romantic interest.
Long story short: what my nephew got is that you don't ever eat all the chocolates, because before eating the last one you should ask if someone else wants it, because it's good manners.
She did not understand that it's a metaphor of the difficulty of having a romantic life for parents with kids, especially single parents.
That's something we get, because we are adult and have already gone through it or witnessed it in other's people lives.
because they are the ones vetting what you could or could not watch.
> At the time animation was always for kids
I am not saying that they were made for the parents to watch them, but for the parents to accept them.
I bet American kids never watched shows that slightly hinted at communism or socialism in the 80s.
> I think it’s just that Link’s behaviour in the show was socially acceptable at the time, but it isn’t anymore.
I wouldn't bet on that.
This is the one of the most popular anime in USA right now
https://i.redd.it/u3i0ue892i251.jpg
I mean, only the slang has changed, not the actual content.
I also believe those characterization were imitating this kind of comedic effect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ1UdYOrR3E
They made people smile because they were exaggerated, not because they were polite.
I'm quite convinced that people understood that Link was being a moron and was not a role model, he had to learn how to behave.
having said that, socially acceptable does not necessarily means better.
also having cartoons specifically made for kids, especially very small children, made things worse, not better.
FWIW I remember disliking the Zelda series at the time, went back and watched it when I was in my early 20s and remember liking it ironically (so-bad-it's-good), and watching scenes from it again now, I think maybe I was too generous in my 20s
Yeah, that's what growing up is usually like, there are a lot of products that I've re-watched over the years and completely changed my mind on them.
Take as one example "The Wizard" or "Thrashin'" were the good guy was a young Josh Brolin (LOL)
https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/preview-440/5871775c/6e...
but the real skater heroes (Caballero, Tony Hawk, Hosoi) were depicted as the bad guys
It is unconceivable today because that idea of the white blonde guy from a good family that gets all the girls is a Republican parents of Reagan era's dream and luckily died with him, people who actually loved skate culture and made it popular hated that life style.
Skateboarding is now pretty normal, my t-shirt from the early 90s "skateboarding is not a crime" would make people laugh today.
that's why I believe we should not judge the things of the past with today's standards, because we are totally different people and live in a totally different society.
We know what was back then, but we couldn't possibly imagine what would be like in the future.
And there are also many things kids of today don't even consider because they are not pop, they are not fresh, they don't talk about them at school.
I've watched a lot of stuff only because it was what other kids constantly talked about, but did not really like them, but didn't say.
In 20 years times most of what kids look at today will be considered "trash that did not age very well".
So, to conclude, thanks god many things from the 80s did not live up to their past fortunes, because they were really bad and reflected an US-centric culture that wasn't so not-to-be-missed after all.
I was suggesting Link’s behaviour is no longer socially acceptable. Not sure if that anime has a character similar to Link. Does it? If it does and it’s very popular I’d be amazed it’s not being called off more often.
That howling wolf cartoon is also a bit dated. It objectifies women. Regarding Link’s behaviour, I’m not sure people really thought he was a moron at the time. Maybe a bit of a loser at times, but his behaviour was not really frowned upon at the time. Growing up I’ve met plenty of men that would make the same kind of jokes and behave in very similar fashion and everyone thought it was funny.
There was adult animation from well known authors way before the Simpsons[1], even if you just consider the USA[2].
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Thousand_and_One_Nights_(196...
Yes, I know. I don’t see how that’s relevant (other countries do exist and matter) but it’s because I thought you might nitpick that I added a USA example.
> and the second is an independent production.
I don’t see how that’s relevant. It was a worldwide hit and is an important piece of movie history, it’s not an obscure college movie.
> Sure, it was not unheard of.
It’s considerably more than “not unheard of”, I specifically chose well-known authors with well-known works. Ralph Bakshi alone directed eight adult-oriented feature film animations before the Simpsons was a thing. Those are far from the only examples.
The Simpsons are important in the history of animation, but however you look at it they were definitely not the first to explore animation for adults. They weren’t the first in their own country, nor were they first on a regular non-kids schedule on TV, nor were they the first successful case.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_adult_animated_televis...
R Rated 1981 Heavy Metal says hello.
Sleeping Beauty is a cartoon adaptation of an opera. Its extremely boring for kids to watch, but its pretty great for adults. Arguably its "kid friendly", but only in the same way that the Nutcracker is kid-friendly. Its not really the kind of entertainment aimed at children though (like say, Peter Pan was).
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Fantasia is also for adults IMO, though kid-friendly (no excessive violence/gore/sex... but a relatively dry musical performance though highly imaginative)
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And Looney Tunes is also filled to the brim with opera / stage references that no child could possibly understand. It was clearly aimed at adults. It does leverage lowbrow humor just in case the audience doesn't "get" the musical / stage references... so I guess its more kid friendly than these other examples.
I liked Beauty and the Beast. I was not bored. Even watched on VHS multiple times.
Yuppies, or Boomers in their prime as working office class people, have nothing to do with this. Perhaps, other than being parents.
This show was shown during the cartoon time during each day, usually either being 6-8:30a, or 2:30p-5p. This when Mario played. On Fridays it was Zelda. That's when this abomination played (Mario was also pretty terrible in its own right). And note, unless one of your parents were stay-at-home (usually the woman in those days), your parents weren't watching it. You, the kid, was. And likely unsupervised. After all, it's a kids show during the cartoon block. "How bad could it be?"
And with the "kids not getting the references", you do not teach boys that cat-calling is good. Nor do you teach that demanding "affection" from women is good. You know you have problems when the Beavis and Butthead version is more accurate and true to what's really being said. We all know B&B is wrong, and it's funny because of that. When we're comparing official "Looking good princess, 'specially from this angle", versus Beavis' "Nice tits" , they're functionally the same thing. And it wasn't an innunendo in either case.
https://www.denofgeek.com/games/the-legend-of-zelda-animated... Puts it better than what I've said...
> Then, of course, there is the characterization of Link, which is a rather mixed bag. To their credit, the writers were successful in imbuing Link with a distinct, memorable character. Unfortunately, that character was appalling. I’m sure the writers were going for some kind of “lovable scamp” vibe with him, but he really just came off as a whiny, obnoxious, barely competent creep with a catchphrase I can only imagine was written into his character bio in the series bible, because it is used at least once per episode. At least. However, despite the fact that this irritating catchphrase that no one ever thought was charming or funny has become an indelible part of this franchise, it is not the worst thing about the cartoon’s Link. I, for one, am far more bothered by all the sexual harassment.
> And there is a lot of it. A LOT. Link is a straight up sexist creeper. He makes lewd comments at Zelda about her cleavage, harasses her for a kiss, treating her affection like some kind of commodity that he’s owed for his service (to be fair, she’s equally horrible by referring to it as a reward at the end of one episode), asks her to kiss him twice after she initially refuses, and even goes so far as to coerce her by physically preventing her from getting away from him until she gives him what he wants. And that’s just in the first episode.
I get it. It's hard to adapt a silent protagonist. But did they have to overcompensate so badly and make him an obnoxious sounding pervert?
I was furious about what Paramount did to Halo when they recently made that into a TV series (partly also for including the sexual desires and activities of the main character that were not accurate or relevant). But you know what?... at least I wasn't a Zelda fan in 1989.
Sometimes tight control over IP is a good thing. That's what I remind myself every time I'm sad there's no Half-Life 3 -- it's a shame there isn't more, but on the other hand at least we're not suffering from two mediocre reboots and an awful unfaithful TV series complete with a gratuitous Alyx-Gordon sex scene.
I haven't watched the Last of Us series yet but perhaps, considering the success of that and Sonic, the tide is turning on awful videogame adaptations. They'll never stop being mostly awful, but perhaps they'll stop being entirely awful.
Nintendo learned this the hard way in the early 90s with the Super Mario Bros movie. I guess The Legend of Zelda wasn't cartoon wasn't enough to cause a stir.
If you're interested in a wild background story about IP, go watch Secret Galaxy's video on Captain N The Game master. It's fascinating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-81eImgppDY
A fairy shows up with some clothing to the princess, saying "i told you princess, you should have put on a robe".
And this was sold as a kids show.
(at least the bevis and butthead overdub was well, more on point, for both the content AND the target audience.)