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Re:Genders.wtf by wpietri on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @12:45PM (#34341582)
Your theory is that, for example, turning people into property based on race was not racist? If so, I don't think there's much point in a discussion here.

For those more reasonable who want to know about what anti-racism is opposed to, I'd suggest reading Loewen's Sundown Towns, Kendi's Stamped from the Beginning, and Mills's The Racial Contract as beginner-friendly looks at the system of racism, its historical and intellectual roots, and how it all played out historically.

Re:Genders.wtf by MrOwnPut on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @12:48PM (#34341640)
Did I say that? Reply to what I say, not words you create. The system was created long before the US.

Many people were involved in this system, from the warring tribes in Africa selling prisoners, to countries like the UK setting up colonies with slaves for cotton, tobacco, etc.

We were the colony that finally stopped the system. It took a long time and a lot of blood because it was the system, but it was ended.

Re:Genders.wtf by wpietri on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @01:04PM (#34341960)
If your point is that the US didn't invent racism, I agree. Again, read Kendi, who traces its roots back pretty well. But that doesn't mean the US wasn't hugely racist both during its colonial period and long after. And again, if that's something that you can't see, I'm not sure what the point of further discussion is.
Re:Genders.wtf by MockObject on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @01:00PM (#34341880)
> Your theory is that, for example, turning people into property based on race was not racist? If so, I don't think there's much point in a discussion here.

Given that the enslaved had been so subjugated by others of the very same race, how could the institution itself possibly be called essentially racist?

Re:Genders.wtf by wpietri on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @01:17PM (#34342154)
I can only hope you're trolling here. But on the off chance that is a sincere question, maybe read the books I recommended.

Or if you'd like a quick answer from the Confederacy's Vice President, you might read the Cornerstone Speech, which includes these words: "Our new government['s]...foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

If you're having trouble seeing the racism there, I'm not sure how else I could help.

Re:Genders.wtf by MockObject on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @01:22PM (#34342248)
You quote the Cornerstone Speech correctly, which was a post-hoc rationalization, a propaganda effort to encourage millions of fighting age men to lay down their lives for an economic system that was based on slavery which, I've already proven, was not an essentially racist institution.
Re:Genders.wtf by wpietri on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @02:23PM (#34343215)
You have proven no such thing, unless you're using some sort of definition of racism so outside the norm that either way it looks like a poor use of my time to try to explain your mistake to you.
Re:Genders.wtf by MockObject on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @03:06PM (#34343867)
Now this is the second time you're ignoring the context of the supply of the very slaves being discussed, so I determine that you are not discussing honestly.
Re:Genders.wtf by wpietri on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @06:33PM (#34346647)
I don't feel responsible for what you have chosen to conclude here, so go wild.
Re:Genders.wtf by pixl97 on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @02:43PM (#34343509)
Remind me again, in the US, how many white people were sold in to chattel slavery?

If even you could somehow make a convincing argument that the pre-war system was not inherently racist (which you cannot), the post-war system of neoslavery would put the final nail in that coffin.

Re:Genders.wtf by MockObject on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @03:11PM (#34343923)
> Remind me again, in the US, how many white people were sold in to chattel slavery?

Even an answer of zero doesn't address or contradict my original point.

There's no such thing as "neoslavery". Racism was certainly used after the war to reduce labor solidarity between the white working class and the newly-freed black laborers, however, that fact also doesn't address or contradict my original point.

Re:Genders.wtf by annyeonghada on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @12:57PM (#34341817)
>Kendi

Maybe try suggesting some serious historical scholarship instead of ideologues.

Re:Genders.wtf by wpietri on Wednesday January 11, 2023 @01:13PM (#34342097)
Oh? What books would you recommend here?
Re:Genders.wtf by wpietri on Thursday January 12, 2023 @03:14PM (#34359648)
Still waiting!