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Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by Manuel_D on Monday January 09, 2023 @03:22PM (#34315461)
It has enabled developers to freely use the mechanics that make up much of the DnD - the "game engine" so to speak: the attribute system, levels, skills, classes, and so on - without paying license fees. The consequence of this is that franchises like Pathfinder now have to pay license fees for these mechanics. The consequence is that video games set in this universe [1] now have to pay liceses to WotC.

I assume these games will just slightly tweak the formula: use D30s instead of D20, change some class names, and so on. It's exceptionally hard to robustly copyright and enforce mathematics, but WotC's lawyers probably pose a significant enough threat to scare away developers.

1. for example: https://www.gog.com/en/game/pathfinder_kingmaker_explorer_ed...

Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by advisedwang on Monday January 09, 2023 @03:59PM (#34315977)
FWIW general game mechanics are not copyrightable. So you don't need a license for core ideas like AC, character attributes, D20 skill/attack/save rolls, modifiers, advantage/disadvantage, equiptment yadda yadda.

It's the specifics of D&D's implementation where you need a license. You'd certainly need to develop your own feats, spells (and not just change the names!). You'd need new classes, or at least major changes (no re-using the level progressions or traits).

You'd need to play test the new variants because changes would be large enough to require new balncing.

All in all not a trivial modification.

Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by the_af on Monday January 09, 2023 @04:41PM (#34316536)
Obligatory IANAL, but I think it's the text itself that's copyrighteable. So you can definitely use the same die rolls or whatever as long as you significantly paraphrase.

Spells and classes names cannot be used if they are trademarked, right? But if WotC didn't trademark "fireball", "paladin" or "hobgoblin", you can totally use them.

Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by Manuel_D on Monday January 09, 2023 @04:11PM (#34316122)
So you can't have a spell called "arcane missile" that does 1d4 damage every 2 levels of the caster? Can you really copyright the concept of an ability that deals (level // 2) * 1d4 damage to an enemy?

My understanding is that this is where things get tricky: realistically WotC probably can't go after anyone that creates an ability that is mechanically identical to DnD ability. Things like spell names, might be, but "fireball" is far too general to be copyrighted. But what about a spell called "fireball" that also has the same mechanics? That's where things can get complicated.

So what if they just doubled all HP values and damage values, and changed any names that are not unambiguously generic ("invisibility", "fireball", etc.) ? Damage values no longer overlap, and spell names are different. On what basis does WotC have to claim infringement?

Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by the_af on Monday January 09, 2023 @04:41PM (#34316554)
> So you can't have a spell called "arcane missile" that does 1d4 damage every 2 levels of the caster?

I think you can. I don't think copyright covers gameplay mechanisms, it just covers the actual text of the rules. But IANAL.

Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by advisedwang on Monday January 09, 2023 @06:13PM (#34317911)
I think for a single spell there's fairly little you'd need to modify (just the actual text of the description, and changing unique names). Not even changing damage dice.

The problem is making a whole spellbook with a one-to-one correspondence to WoTC's spellbook, even if each of those entries has been modified. The spellbook is more than just a bunch of separate spells - it's a collection carefully designed for balanced gameplay and has protection in itself. See [1] for one way that "compilations" can be treated as having more rights.

The EU also allows copyright of databases [2], and I think the spell list meets the criteria.

And don't forget you'd also be doing the same thing with races, classes, equipment, monsters, conditions, deities, feats, blah blah blah. Put together I think it's pretty likely to be infringing somewhere! Certainly enough that a lawsuit isn't getting dismissed.

[1] https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf [2] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX...

Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by mNovak on Monday January 09, 2023 @04:47PM (#34316647)
Not a lawyer, but my understanding last I looked into it was that names and rules cannot be copyrighted (names can be trademarked though). In very limited cases a novel mechanic could be patented (famously MTG 'tapping' of cards). The issue overall is that no one wants to risk it in court, so there's no recent precedent to take inspiration from.
Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by krainboltgreene on Monday January 09, 2023 @04:55PM (#34316749)
> Not a lawyer, but my understanding last I looked into it was that names and rules cannot be copyrighted (names can be trademarked though)

That's what the person you're replying to wrote.

Re:An Open Letter on the Open Gaming License, to Wizards of ... by sillysaurusx on Monday January 09, 2023 @05:01PM (#34316838)
Interestingly, I got a conclusive answer to this question when working at S2 on Heroes of Newerth.

The CEO accidentally CC'ed me (he meant to CC Sean, not Shawn) on a letter from Valve's lawyer threatening us with legal action for copying Beastmaster's mechanics. They had a side-by-side of ours (https://hon.fandom.com/wiki/Tundra) vs theirs (https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Beastmaster), and pointed out that the mechanics were identical.

It was very surprising. So the answer is "Maybe not, but that won't stop companies from threatening to sue you." Or "Maybe it is, and companies will threaten to sue you." No one really knows, since it hasn't been tested in court.