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Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by woodruffw on Saturday January 07, 2023 @06:00PM (#34293931)
In which case, it seems like your blame is misplaced: the government is not particularly guilty of waste (although not innocent either), but is instead is mostly powerless to prevent private contractors from abusing the public's interest.
Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by WalterBright on Saturday January 07, 2023 @06:11PM (#34294031)
> the government is not particularly guilty of waste

Sorry, but LOL. For one fine example, the cost of a NASA launch vs the cost of a SpaceX launch.

> is mostly powerless to prevent private contractors from abusing the public's interest.

The government? Powerless? The government writes the contracts. There are a vast array of regulations specifically aimed at government contractors.

Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by woodruffw on Saturday January 07, 2023 @06:20PM (#34294119)
I'm talking about bridges. Depending on political proclivities, anybody can find an example of government waste to suit any particular argument.

The observation is very simple: if the government estimates and allocates $500 million for a bridge and finds a contractor that claims to be able to do it for that price, there's very little reasonable power we can grant them to make the contractor meet their claimed budget. We could allow the government to throw contractors in prison for bilking them but, well, we already allow that (and it doesn't recoup the costs anyways).

Regulatory capture and special interests seem to be the bigger problem here. Complaining about NASA without considering why the government so fecklessly pays Lockheed Martin et al. billions a year is short-sighted.

Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by WalterBright on Saturday January 07, 2023 @10:35PM (#34295772)
> anybody can find an example of government waste to suit any particular argument

True, as those examples are everywhere one looks.

The trick is to find one that is efficient.

> he observation is very simple: if the government estimates and allocates $500 million for a bridge and finds a contractor that claims to be able to do it for that price, there's very little reasonable power we can grant them to make the contractor meet their claimed budget.

Yet private companies contract stuff out to other companies all the time, and the contracts get done on time and on budget. For example, take Boeing. Boeing gets a contract from Delta to build, say, 50 airplanes for $5 billion, to be delivered on June 1. Every day Boeing is late, Boeing pays the airline a penalty. If Boeing runs over budget, Boeing eats the difference, not Delta. If Boeing fails to deliver Delta 50 airplanes, Boeing pays a big penalty to Delta.

Now, if Delta wants to change the spec after it is signed, well, they gotta pay Boeing. If Delta doesn't pay the bill, they get sued by Boeing. If Delta wants to reduce the number of planes they contracted for, Delta pays a penalty.

See how that works?

And Boeing does their damn-dest to be on time and on budget.

Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by DangitBobby on Sunday January 08, 2023 @02:59AM (#34297078)
Very often contractors come in over time and over budget in private sector as well. I've cleaned up after contractors who have done it, and we've done it too. There's nothing magical about the private sector, it's the exact same problem. Do you want 4/5ths of an app that no one else will figure out how to finish in a reasonable time, or do you want to pay us more than we asked to finish? The choice is obvious, predictable, and observable if you've ever been involved in contractor relationships.
Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by WalterBright on Sunday January 08, 2023 @03:27AM (#34297200)
Oh, I have been involved in contractor relationships. If I don't meet the spec on time, I don't get paid.

I've also watched contractors who are paid a $$$ bonus for every day they are ahead of schedule. It's amazing how fast they work. I remember one group that received $10,000 each for delivering on time. This was back in the 80s, when that was real money. There was no way that project was going to be late.

May I suggest your outfit hire better contract lawyers.

Do you recall after that earthquake in LA the city hired a construction company to rebuild a freeway interchange that collapsed? They offered ONE MILLION DOLLARS PER DAY to complete it ahead of schedule.

The contractor broke all records and got it done months ahead of schedule. Everybody was happy.

Isn't it amazing how that works?

Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by DangitBobby on Sunday January 08, 2023 @11:59AM (#34300742)
We don't hire contractors, we are contractors. And we are hourly. Not interested in getting $3/hr because the shit is much harder than you/we thought.
Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by WalterBright on Sunday January 08, 2023 @03:18PM (#34302642)
If you are paid hourly, what happens when you stop progress? I bet the money stops. Being paid hourly means you're going to be closely monitored.
Re:Excess Management Is Costing the U.S. $3T Per Year (2016) by DangitBobby on Sunday January 08, 2023 @09:46PM (#34306094)
Sure, but we aren't talking about them not working, we're talking about things getting done on time "or else."