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Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by trabant00 on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:18AM (#34259846)
> Using three tons vehicles for long-distance journeys or for the transport of goods isn’t efficient: trains (and last-mile delivery on cargo bikes) are a lot more economical

That sounds intuitive to me but the fact that train tickets are so expensive on long distances (more than twice than if you travel alone in a car) makes me think it's not the case.

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by Closi on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:41AM (#34260177)
> Using three tons vehicles for long-distance journeys or for the transport of goods isn’t efficient: trains (and last-mile delivery on cargo bikes) are a lot more economical

You are right - Rail freight is extremely expensive (typically more expensive than road except for very long routes) and cargo bikes have a tiny payload.

Think about container ships - massive vehicle and much lower cost vs rail freight (dependent on distance).

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by AstralStorm on Thursday January 05, 2023 @10:21AM (#34260850)
Surprisingly not that much lower, which is why Transsiberian Railway is still a main transit hub.

What matters is large volume per ride, which trains can definitely pull off.

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by bertil on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:22AM (#34259897)
The price difference is because the vast majority of costs for car transport (direct, like road maintenance and indirect, like millions of people dying because of pollution) are handled by the state. Trains can easily be much cheaper as most costs are fixed and they can handle orders of magnitude more traffic without congestion.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by kuschku on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:34AM (#34260060)
Train tickets include track maintenace, but if you travel by car, you usually don't include road maintenance, car purchase, etc in the travel price (as they're often hidden and include many subsidies and tax breaks).

Additionally, a train always costs the same amount to run, no matter the number of passengers, so in countries where trains don't see much use (like the US), they'll be much more expensive than they should be.

If you look at how DB sells the vast majority of their tickets (Sparpreis and Super Sparpreis) in the 9,90 / 14,90 to 49,90 price range (including for 1000km long distance journeys), train travel can be relatively affordable (but obviously still more expensive than car travel if you travel short journeys, fill the car with 7 adults and don't include the road maintenance paid for by regular taxes)

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by dagw on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:55AM (#34260401)
vast majority of their tickets (Sparpreis and Super Sparpreis) in the 9,90 / 14,90 to 49,90

If you are flexible and plan ahead. If I decide now to go visit my sister tomorrow (~4 hours by the fastest train route), want to get there not much slower than by car, and travel at a time that is convenient for me, then I'll end up paying a lot more if I go by train, even if I'm traveling alone.

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by kuschku on Thursday January 05, 2023 @10:13AM (#34260691)
Yes, that's necessary to provide incentives for people to spread the load over the whole day. Otherwise everyone would pile into the same trains during the middle of the day instead.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday January 05, 2023 @10:36AM (#34261125)
Nobody is saying it’s unreasonable. Just that there remains a valid justification for owning a car. Not driving it everywhere, all the time. But having one.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by kuschku on Thursday January 05, 2023 @11:56AM (#34262748)
I don’t really agree with that. If driving 7+ people is something you do every day, sure. But for the vast majority of people, there is no valid reason whatsoever.

I’ve never owned a car, and stopped during the middle of my driving lessons because I didn’t see the purpose in it. That was 10 years ago, and I’ve moved halfway across the country, traveled a lot, never had a car, and overall I spend significantly less on travel than the friends who do own cars (while traveling more comfortably)

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by hcurtiss on Thursday January 05, 2023 @12:07PM (#34262909)
Passenger rail in the US, like Amtrak, is spectacularly subsidized.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by wpm on Thursday January 05, 2023 @12:17PM (#34263086)
Amtrak is receiving $19.26B over the years of 2022 to 2026. $4.8B a year. That is an increase from the $1.7B/year it received from FY17 to FY19

The FHWA is handing out $52B in FY22. Now, you might say, oh, well, more people drive, so the FHWA is clearly a more sensible place to invest. But Americans spent $743B on their cars, including payments, interest, and insurance.

It's a scam.

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by hcurtiss on Thursday January 05, 2023 @12:24PM (#34263216)
I wouldn't call it a scam. The subsidy per rider is, in fact, a relevant number. As others have pointed out, commuting by rail in America largely sucks, particularly in an age of COVID and rampant crime in many metro areas. In Portland a dude literally had his face and ear bitten off the other day at a light rail station. People will pay more for cars because everything about the experience is better.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by wpm on Thursday January 05, 2023 @12:52PM (#34263656)
In Portland a guy had his ear bitten, and ~100 people died in their cars in crashes.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by hcurtiss on Thursday January 05, 2023 @01:28PM (#34264215)
Not in one day, and there's been a lot more violence than that on Metro, including shootings and stabbings. I'm much more comfortable with the risk on the highway, which is in many ways contingent on my own behaviors. Rational or not, I suspect many, many people agree with me. Likewise, buses were hilarious during the pandemic. Nobody wanted anything to do with them, and that's increasingly true every cold and flu season. How many people do communicable viruses contracted by mass transit kill every year? These are not flip comments. I'm just making the case that there's a reason people prefer cars, and it's not just because of some failure to build sufficient mass transit.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by TheCoelacanth on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:18PM (#34266734)
Because of unprofitable long-haul routes through the middle of nowhere that no one in their right mind would use instead of flying but that are kept for political reasons.

The northeast corridor, which is basically the only Amtrak route that is actually focused on being a useful route for passengers, runs at a profit.

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by qudat on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:31AM (#34260026)
> That sounds intuitive to me but the fact that train tickets are so expensive on long distances (more than twice than if you travel alone in a car) makes me think it's not the case.

Have you factored in all the costs associated with owning a vehicle (e.g. cost of purchase, maintenance, etc)?

Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by tyho on Thursday January 05, 2023 @09:45AM (#34260230)
Yep, train travel in the UK is more expensive than driving under any circumstances by at least a factor of two or three other than when commuting into London, where parking charges make the economics work.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by bertil on Thursday January 05, 2023 @04:32PM (#34266968)
You don’t include the health cost of pollution and the cost of accidents: healthcare and loss of life make driving far more expensive. That cost is not paid for by the drivers at the moment.
Re:Does the world have enough lithium to move to electric ve... by tyho on Sunday January 08, 2023 @07:32AM (#34298560)
I'll give you the health costs and climate costs but the costs of accidents are paid by drivers through their insurance premiums.