To Build Truly Intelligent Machines, Teach Them Cause and Effect (2018)

Re:To Build Truly Intelligent Machines, Teach Them Cause and... by vintermann on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @04:53AM (#34243839)

You're right that want is important. But what I think you miss (I may be wrong) is that "want" is not an empirical category.

Does a cloud want to rain? Or does it just rain because it obeys physical laws as part of a huge complex system?

Do I want to have a cup of coffee? Or a job? Or a girlfriend? Or am I likewise just doing things because my atoms obey physical laws as part of a huge complex system?

This is not a scientific question. It is a teleological question. That doesn't make it less important, on the contrary. It's the answers to teleological questions which make anything important, including the scientific questions which happen to be important.

So the question is not, "what can we do to make a machine want things", it's "When should we ascribe what a machine does to its own wants".

And my answer is "never". Not as long as it's a product of our wants, which they always will be.

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Re:To Build Truly Intelligent Machines, Teach Them Cause and... by itworkslikethat on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @06:30AM (#34244384)

Yes, you want to work, you want to have a cup of coffee. You may not like it, but you decided to do it and then executed a very complex series of steps to accomplish the goal. You're not a cloud, working/drinking is not an inevitable and direct physical process you're undergoing by yourself.

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Re:To Build Truly Intelligent Machines, Teach Them Cause and... by vintermann on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @06:42AM (#34244456)

I obviously agree that I have both will and wants.

But I can't say that the physical processes in me are in any fundamental way different, than physical processes anywhere else in nature. Most are deterministic, some may be inscrutable, and some may even be random or unknowable - but all those things can be said about the weather, too. You cannot derive my wants from my capabilities (unless you're prepared you ascribe wants to clouds as well, I guess).

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Re:To Build Truly Intelligent Machines, Teach Them Cause and... by itworkslikethat on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @06:51AM (#34244507)

The actual physical process of your body using the water once you ingest it is not much different, sure. But you can choose not to drink (and die some days later). A cloud can't choose not to rain.

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Re:To Build Truly Intelligent Machines, Teach Them Cause and... by vintermann on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @07:47AM (#34244879)

I'm pretty sure I can't will myself to thirst myself to death, actually.

But you're again missing the point. It feels to me like I have choices. I believe you're right, I have choices. You're kicking down an open door when you're arguing this.

What I'm telling you is that I didn't come to this belief empirically. And indeed I believe it is impossible to justify empirically.

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Re:To Build Truly Intelligent Machines, Teach Them Cause and... by itworkslikethat on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @09:37AM (#34245945)

You can. It takes some drugs, but you can. It's not uncommon for people to die because of dehydration at parties (taking stuff like extasis, etc).

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