Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by garettmd on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:02AM
(#34233155)
I remember during most interactions with healthcare providers during my wife and I's pregnancies, hardly anyone ever talked to me, sometimes never even looking at me. I get it, I'm not the one carrying a baby to term, but I would have thought the fact that I was showing up to all these appointments, staying by my wife's side, taking part in decisions, and supporting her and the baby through the whole thing would have granted me a bit of acknowledgement of my role and investment in the whole process. But many times people acted like I wasn't even there.
I can't imagine having to deal with that dynamic with what you went through, and am so sorry for your loss.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by chasd00 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:14AM
(#34233351)
i know exactly what you mean. I remember an early doc appointment with my wife she was pregnant with our first child, the doctor was going over things with my wife like what she should be doing and what she should not be doing etc. I asked the doctor what i should be doing and what i should look out for, she just glared at me and said "you've done enough." implying i was only there to get my wife pregnant. That was 13 years ago but i still remember it vividly.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by lotsofpulp on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:27AM
(#34233567)
I cannot relate to yours or garettmd’s experience, on both east or west coast of USA. There was lots of information for me (the dad) by the OB, and during the class about birthing we took for our first. This was in last 5 years.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by watwut on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:17PM
(#34234375)
I mean, what you think doctor should tell you about what you should be doing while wife is pregnant? If the wife wants your support, I would expect the wife to tell you what kind of support she needs. She does not need doctor to be her speaker, presumably. And doctor giving you instructions on what she should be doing in pregnancy would be patronizing toward wife.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by unholythree on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @02:24PM
(#34236637)
If we take the poster with good faith we can assume he genuinely thought the doctor might know some useful ways he could be of help that neither he nor his wife knew. Even if there wasn't (which seems unlikely to me) I feel like good bedside manner should extend to a patient's loved ones when possible. Simply addressing him politely to say "Just be available and help as you can." would have be a far kinder way to blow off an anxious person.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by chasd00 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @06:31PM
(#34239675)
A good example of something a doctor could tell the other half is like “if she can’t get out of bed and you take her blood pressure and it’s X then call me but if it’s Y then call 911”. Those are important things a partner needs to know during a pregnancy.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by watwut on Wednesday January 04, 2023 @02:33AM
(#34243065)
I did not got instructions for "if I can't get out of bed" and I was the pregnant one. Nor the relationships style advice about availability and interpersonal help.
Both kind of suggest there is not much to tell, like they are doctor going out of way to give advice about stuff they normally don't talk about, just to have something to say.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by zdragnar on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @02:53PM
(#34237054)
For a first pregnancy, the doctor shouldn't make any assumptions about what the couple knows and doesn't know.
Even if the advice was "Let her listen to her body, she will know when she needs help and support" would go a long way- both in assuaging the father's concern, and in reinforcing that it is both acceptable and encouraged to ask for help as the mother's body changes.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by staticman2 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:45PM
(#34234881)
Medically speaking, what did you expect a pregnancy doctor to tell someone who wasn't pregnant?
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @01:32PM
(#34235679)
Presumably they know what things that the patient would benefit from external help with. That kind of advice is pretty standard in the medical world.
Re:Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis (Book)
by chasd00 on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @06:28PM
(#34239644)
I was interested in things like what to look out for that may be an indication of a problem. Changes in habits or behavior, that kind of thing. Basically, how to help and care for someone who is pregnant from the medical perspective. Because, at that time, I had never done it before and had no idea.
That said, I don't think it makes sense to connect the issues surrounding the ways in which men and women are still gendered in society, our resulting assumptions, and the harm they do with this particular problem. Because I think this particular problem affects both men and women, though with perhaps some differences in affect that are worth calling out because of the aforementioned gender roles and assumptions.
I haven't read the referenced book, but I would separate this problem from the one described in the book. I think we're reinforcing those stereotypes when we frame the general problem of "people not having work" as being specific to men.
Even beyond that, I would challenge the whole notion that people need to be included in the workforce. I think we're framing the problem wrong when we look at it that way. People need to be economically secure, they need to have deep connection to communities, and they need to have something meaningful to do with their time. Right now, many people only get those things from work. This is true of both men and women, plenty of women talk about loss of identity and struggle finding community when they become stay at home parents.
So I would argue that the book is taking the wrong framing - both in focusing on men and in taking the wrong assumptions, or perhaps, the wrong ordering.