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Re:English as She Is Spoke by yamtaddle on Monday January 02, 2023 @05:54PM (#34224856)
"Envious" has all but completely been absorbed by "jealous" in the vernacular. People just use "jealous" for both things. Good thing there can never be any ambiguity about which sense is intended.

"To comprise" is deployed incorrectly more often than correctly. Which is silly since, when used incorrectly, you could have simply used "to be composed of" (which is the thing people are confusing it for)—there's no benefit to using "comprised" there, all its elegance and subtle shade of meaning are lost anyway when you jam it into that clunky phrase as a perfect synonym for "composed". I think that's one of those fake-fancy abuses of language from business folks, leeching into everyday language. What synergy!

The apt adjective, rather than various words and modifiers expressing degrees of good or badness—many of which used to express more, but no longer do, as "massive" or "awesome"—seems to be an endangered species.

Awkward use of "less than" inexplicably replacing the word "inferior" in some circles. "We must ensure none of the children feel 'less than'". In the words of my generation: "LOL WTF?"

Anyone have handy any studies on vocabulary among Americans? It looks to have markedly decreased over the last few decades, but I worry I may be falling for the same kind of bias that seems to make everyone think everything's getting worse all the time. Popular writing gives me the impression it's written for an audience with a smaller vocabulary than in, say, the 1950s or 1960s, though.

Re:English as She Is Spoke by DangitBobby on Monday January 02, 2023 @06:23PM (#34225170)
The "incorrect" use of comprise is correct and has been in use since the 18th century [1].

1. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comprise

Re:English as She Is Spoke by yamtaddle on Monday January 02, 2023 @07:06PM (#34225584)
Sure, it has a history. Any use that is described as incorrect has a history, else it wouldn't come up. Is it distracting? Is there another word that perfectly replaces it, is understood by practically all English speakers, and that's not distracting? Yes and yes, so: "to be composed of" should be preferred. I further doubt, very much, that the choice to substitute "to be comprised of" is an informed one in very nearly all cases—its presence is a "smell", if you will, which does mean it conveys some information, but most of the time that information is not something that the person using it is trying to express, which makes it a mistake.

I care less about this one than others, though, since there's little risk of this replacing the ordinary use of the word and making the language less expressive (as in the case of "envious" vs "jealous"). "Avoid doing this" remains good advice, but it's not so bad as errors go. I mainly brought it up as an example of incorrect use surpassing correct use.

It's in a similar class to using "X and I" where it should be "X and me". It causes little harm, most of the time, as far as hindering communication, but getting it right is still preferable to getting it wrong, which means that any decent guide will classify it as a mistake, unless (as is always the case) one means to commit the error, for some reason. That's the case despite the incorrect-I error having, I'm sure, a longer and more widespread history than "to be comprised of"—the history doesn't save it from being something to avoid. Maybe some day it will.

Re:English as She Is Spoke by DangitBobby on Monday January 02, 2023 @11:31PM (#34227686)
Cool. Words are defined by how people use them, not the other way around. People have been using it enough for the "official" definition to have expanded to include your pet peeve usage, and is undeniably actually correct usage no matter how many paragraphs you type out having no relevance to the matter. Complaining about it won't accomplish anything, it's over. Unless your goal is to try to change the definition of "incorrectly" to mean "in ways I don't like".
Re:English as She Is Spoke by yamtaddle on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:56AM (#34233065)
Descriptions and sound advice needn't be in agreement.

[EDIT] Sorry, that was needlessly curt. I don't think we actually disagree that much anyway—I'm not advancing prescriptivism, and this issue doesn't bother me that much (I was just using it as an example!), though I do notice it. I can find support in the dictionary for my use of "incorrect" here— :-) —but it was probably an incorrect word to have used to express what I was getting at in the first place, and my poor choice there may have been the cause of much of this exchange.

Re:English as She Is Spoke by denton-scratch on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @06:21AM (#34230189)
Merriam Webster are the arch-descriptivists. If a usage is attested anywhere, MW lists it as correct. Basically, they don't believe that any usage attested anywhere can be incorrect. If you want to know whether a usage is correct or not, don't ask MW.
Re:English as She Is Spoke by amanaplanacanal on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @09:21AM (#34231627)
Correct according to whom?
Re:English as She Is Spoke by denton-scratch on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:55AM (#34234051)
Humpty Dumpty is not an authority on the meaning of words.
Re:English as She Is Spoke by amanaplanacanal on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @12:13PM (#34234317)
That’s the thing. Nobody is. Words were not handed down from god. Language changes continuously. Notice how we aren’t speaking proto-indo-european any more?
Re:English as She Is Spoke by denton-scratch on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @02:17PM (#34236521)
I'm trying to avoid this conversation :-) I think descriptivism/prescriptivism is probably off-topic in this thread.

Oh well -

Someone upthread implied that the purpose of a descriptivist dictionary is to help readers/hearers to understand unfamiliar words, not to guide writers/speakers in correct usage. Thing is, they're all descriptivist. There are opinionated guides like Fowler (and the subject of this article! /on-topic), but I don't know of an opinionated lexicon.

Re:English as She Is Spoke by amanaplanacanal on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @10:39PM (#34241719)
Honestly it’s just my pet peeve. It’s like grammar nazis. I want to tell them this just isn’t how language works.
Re:English as She Is Spoke by yamtaddle on Tuesday January 03, 2023 @11:42AM (#34233840)
Descriptivist dictionaries aren't about giving advice on usage that best communicates, so consulting them as a usage guide is usually not the best idea. They're to help one understand unfamiliar words or usage—including common but maybe-not-great ones!—not to use as a guide to what's best. Finding a definition in a dictionary isn't enough to justify a choice, aside from confirming that one has not done something entirely novel.
Re:English as She Is Spoke by user982 on Monday January 02, 2023 @06:00PM (#34224922)
The past tense of "lead" will be dictionary-accepted as "lead" within your lifetime.