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Re:Louis Rossmann discusses NY's butchering of right to repair by remote_phone on Saturday December 31, 2022 @05:04AM (#34195103)
> Tickets are nonrefundable because otherwise the network doesn't work, financially.

This is 100% false. Southwest Airlines is one of the most profitable airlines in the US and their refund policy for refundable flights is a full refund up to 10 mins before the flight. For nonrefundable flights you get full credit if you cancel up to 10 mins before your flight, with no additional fees.

During the pandemic, ALL airlines moved to full credit with no change fees if you cancelled your flight. Previously they would have absurd $200 change fees or loss of your flight.

The idea that airlines can’t survive with flexible, consumer friendly policies is a lie. Things like the check in fees or fuel surcharge are pure profit.

Re:Louis Rossmann discusses NY's butchering of right to repair by xwdv on Saturday December 31, 2022 @06:24AM (#34195457)
The airlines were buoyed by PPP loans.
Re:Louis Rossmann discusses NY's butchering of right to repair by Retric on Saturday December 31, 2022 @07:09AM (#34195736)
Which didn’t even fully cover the dramatic drop in customers let alone these policy changes.

What people forget is companies are in competition, if every airline is forced to refund ticks then the industry simply reaches a new equilibrium with very slightly higher ticket prices. However, if any airline defects to worse customer service they all end up doing the same. Thus the need for customer focused regulations.

Re:Louis Rossmann discusses NY's butchering of right to repair by butlerm on Saturday December 31, 2022 @07:23AM (#34195826)
Airlines did not qualify for PPP loans. They did receive substantial direct support from the federal government however. PPP "loans" were reserved for businesses with less than five hundred employees that weren't worth very much (relatively speaking) either.
Re:Louis Rossmann discusses NY's butchering of right to repair by xwdv on Saturday December 31, 2022 @09:26AM (#34196689)
So even better than PPP loans??
Re:Louis Rossmann discusses NY's butchering of right to repair by butlerm on Sunday January 01, 2023 @04:30AM (#34204951)
Probably. All told the government basically covered 18 months of airline payroll expenses but the airlines had to pay about 25% of that back. PPP "loans" were intended as payroll support for a shorter period with 100% forgiveness in most cases.
Re:Louis Rossmann discusses NY's butchering of right to repair by smcin on Saturday December 31, 2022 @01:39PM (#34199317)
No it's not 100% false, it's about 70% correct, refunds are in (expiring, non-transferable) flight credits not money-back. The preceding poster said "your money back" not "flight credits".

Flight credits expire (with US carriers, typically in 12 months, sometimes within only 3 months (Spirit), with European carriers, sometimes up to 3 years), and cannot be transferred to any other passenger [0], unlike even airmiles; many passengers are unaware of both of those and airlines do not point it out, and rely on the fact that passengers may not realize till the credit has expired.

Just because an airline only initially offers (restricted, expiring) travel credits, doesn't mean much; in some cases [1] passengers may be entitled to an actual money-back refund: (a) canceled flight b) passenger has documented medical circumstance c) cancellations due to Covid d) possibly other circumstance).

Southwest in 3/2022 unveiled its long-awaited new fare category "Wanna Get Away Plus" whose key perk is the ability to transfer flight credits, which Southwest calls travel funds (which sounds like intentionally misleading language, but anyway). But again, SW charge more for WGA+.

> Southwest Airlines... refund policy for refundable flights is a full refund up to 10 mins before the flight.

But that's the minority case: only Southwest's Anytime and higher fares are (money-back-)refundable, and they are typically way more expensive (2.5-4x) than non-refundable WGA fares. I can't find data but AFAIK most SW non-business passengers are WGA fares.

So the statement:

>> Tickets are nonrefundable because otherwise the network doesn't work, financially.

is in the general case true.

(One well-known travel hack with SWA for frequent travelers who didn't know their departure dates 3 weeks in advance used to be to buy 3+ different non-refundable tickets spaced out by say a week each, then refund whichever tickets you didn't end up needing. This was still cheaper than one Anytime fare.)

  [0]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2022/03/24/southwest-flights-new-fare-wanna-get-away-plus/7143951001/
  [1]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/advice/2020/10/09/flight-vouchers-yours-expiring-soon-what-to-do/5907794002/