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Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ... by pclmulqdq on Monday December 26, 2022 @06:55AM (#34136943)
Your interpretation of this is pretty popular today, but is completely historically false on both the first and second amendments.

On the second, privately owned ordnance weapons and warships were extremely common in the 1800s, and the definition of "well-regulated" was closer to "well-equipped" than to the modern word "regulated." In fact, the earliest "gun control" laws were about when and where you could fire your cannons. It took until the really 1920s to start thinking of the second amendment as a "collective" right which allowed any restrictions.

On the first amendment, it has been under societal attack since the founding of the country. The laws against sedition were some of the first laws ever passed, and were an attack on speech. In the early 1900s, it was all about preventing protests from labor groups and women who wanted to vote. The red scare was a very recent instance. Thankfully, the judiciary, since 1800, has been very good at striking down governmental attempts to control speech, and created the strongest legal regime around free speech that has ever existed. This regime had its last great test with the red scare. Twitter-FBI "state-informed" moderation and these ridiculous speech codes are just another attempt, in a 200 year old tradition, of the powerful to control other people's speech.

You are looking at a narrow slice of American history and generalizing from it. The whole history of the country is quite encouraging in terms of the rights of the individual, and I think we will see a turnaround on the current situation around speech, as we have every other time.

Meet the new puritans, same as the old puritans.

Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ... by hotpotamus on Monday December 26, 2022 @07:16AM (#34137057)
You interpretation of history is also false - there was no more consensus on the meaning of the Amendments then than there is today.
Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ... by culi on Monday December 26, 2022 @02:12PM (#34140735)
By "pretty popular" you must mean the majority of historians, right? Here's Britannica's take:

> Despite the Supreme Court’s rulings in Heller and McDonald, many constitutional historians disagreed with the court that the Second Amendment protected an individual right to “keep and bear Arms” for the purpose of self-defense in the home. Indeed, for more than two centuries there had been a consensus among judges as well as scholars that the Second Amendment guaranteed only the right of individuals to defend their liberties by participating in a state militia. However, by the late 20th century the “self-defense” interpretation of the amendment had been adopted by a significant minority of judges.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Second-Amendment/Origins-an...

Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ... by pclmulqdq on Monday December 26, 2022 @08:42PM (#34144000)
It was certainly the popular consensus view among historians (registering about 95% democrat) at the time of Heller, but that does not in any way mean that it is or was the consensus view of notable legal scholars, Supreme Court justices, or anyone else who is actually well-informed on the issues and history of the second amendment. And also facts, which matter a lot more than "consensus."

If you would like to back up your argument from authority with actual evidence, can you pull out a gun control law from before 1900 that bans anything close to the weapons that are banned today?

Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ... by culi on Monday December 26, 2022 @09:08PM (#34144187)
sure, but first can you pull up a law from before 1900 regulating social media?
Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ... by wolverine876 on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @02:24AM (#34146171)
> the popular consensus view among historians (registering about 95% democrat)

Can you address the claims with facts and reason? Resorting to ad hominen attacks seems to indicate the facts and reason are lacking.

Re:MIT Faculty Votes for Statement on Freedom of Expression ... by wolverine876 on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @02:27AM (#34146188)
> the judiciary, since 1800, has been very good at striking down governmental attempts to control speech

I'm not sure that's true. The record is mixed, afaik. For example, political repression of the left has been repeatedly allowed.

> Twitter-FBI "state-informed" moderation

AFAIK, the evidence amounted to very little or nothing happening in that regard?