Re:Taxpayers paying billions for the renovations and constru...
by TheCleric on Sunday December 25, 2022 @04:01PM
(#34131202)
> No good or service can bring happiness.
Going back to art, this is probably false. Art (including music) brings happiness to at least some creators and some consumers. I personally receive great happiness from listening to music.
Re:Taxpayers paying billions for the renovations and constru...
by Vt71fcAqt7 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @04:52PM
(#34131792)
>I personally receive great happiness from listening to music.
This is a pretty naive understanding of hapiness. It is widley held by philosophers, religions, and even even many (most) uneducated people that happines is happiness in one's state of being, ie. something like contentment. One who is "happy when he listens to music" is generaly said not to be happy. Not even not "truly" happy but just not happy at all. This can be demomstated from an evoltionary, teleological psychological, or even theological perspective.
Re:Taxpayers paying billions for the renovations and constru...
by TheCleric on Monday December 26, 2022 @12:00AM
(#34134751)
I can assure you that at least in the theological circles I have traveled in you have it exactly backwards. In those traditions happiness is momentary and fleeting, but a contentedness with a state of being regardless of circumstances would be described as joy.
Re:Taxpayers paying billions for the renovations and constru...
by bumby on Monday December 26, 2022 @08:38AM
(#34137510)
I get what you're saying here but it's an entirely different argument than saying subjective experience has no value. It comes across as so unwilling to acknowledge the inward experience of others as to appear almost insufferably unempathetic.
Re:Taxpayers paying billions for the renovations and constru...
by TheCleric on Monday December 26, 2022 @07:18PM
(#34143406)
Oh I know this is just a side trail on a bigger discussion. You're completely correct though, ability to understand that other people's experiences are valid is the very definition of empathy.
>More importantly, art can be an end to itself.
Is life itself not the greatest art? One who lives for art is already dead.
>The idea that everything has to be a means to some end can devolve into treating all human endeavors as inputs into some global maximization functions
Even if all basic needs were fulfiled, art still would not have true value.
>reducing humans to cogs in a machine
Are artists and thier consumers not cogs in a machinine maximizing their pleasure? Not that this framing means anything on it's own.
>That feels a bit philosophically bankrupt
Many philosphies have taken the stance given above, begining in ~500 BC in Buddhism, and reappearing independently multiple times such as in Mohism in 400 BC and still existing in modern philosophies such as some forms of utilitarianism and nihlism. No serious philosphers, meanwhile, beleive that the meaning of life is to look at art.