For Want of a JOIN

Re:For Want of a JOIN by int_19h on Thursday December 22, 2022 @06:19PM (#34100295)

The boundary between "simple" and "complex" data structures is largely arbitrary, though. It's not unreasonable to consider an integer as a complex data structure, consisting of bits, and in some contexts we do that - but in most, it's obviously more convenient to treat it as a single value. In the same vein, it should be possible to treat a tuple of several numbers (say, point coordinates) as a single value as well, in contexts where this makes sense.

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Re:For Want of a JOIN by goto11 on Friday December 23, 2022 @02:21AM (#34103131)

In the context of the relational model, simple and composite refer to how they are treated by by the relational operators. You can't select individual bits of an integer (without special-purpose operators) which means an integer is a single value.

Presumable an integer is physically stored as a set of bits, but this is not exposed to the logical layer (for good reasons - e.g. whether the machine uses big endian or little endian should not affect the logical layer). If you actually wanted to operate on individual bits using relational operators, you would use a column for each individual bit.

Having XML or JSON fields is also totally fine according to the relational model as long as they are "black box"-values for the logical layer. But Codd observed that if you wanted to treat individual values as composite you end up with a much more complex query language. And indeed this have happened with XPath and JSON-queries and whatnot embedded in SQL. Presumably it should then be possible to have XML inside a JSON struct, and a table inside the XML. If this is even possible, it would be hideously complex.

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Re:For Want of a JOIN by int_19h on Friday December 23, 2022 @06:29PM (#34111900)

This is an arbitrary distinction in the first place. You can absolutely have a relational database that only allows 0 and 1 as valid values and requires you to build integers up yourself using relational techniques. The relational model itself doesn't care what "values" are.

In practice, simple value tuples make things much more convenient, and the edge cases are minimal. You don't have to allow full-fledged composition like nested tables etc.

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Re:For Want of a JOIN by goto11 on Monday December 26, 2022 @11:38AM (#34139204)

> The relational model itself doesn't care what "values" are.

Maybe I misunderstand what you are arguing, but the relational model is defined in terms of values and domains (data types), but of course the domains chosen for a particular database schema depends on the business requirements.

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