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Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by hinkley on Saturday December 17, 2022 @11:03PM (#34034947)
If we were a lot better about not letting your teens and twenties so heavily define your story arc as a human, maybe. But without some sort of insurance and/or escrow program any implant than gives you any kind of edge will be accepted by people too young to really understand the consequences.

Especially the sorts of people who think they'll dead by 30 so side effects that show up in your 40's are no big deal.

Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by concordDance on Sunday December 18, 2022 @05:35AM (#34036451)
What kind of consequences are people in their 20s too young to understand? In democracies we generally assume those 21+ can understand all the issues, which is why we let them vote.

This seems sorta like not letting 80 year olds have email because they don't understand it and might get scammed.

Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by bombolo on Sunday December 18, 2022 @08:49AM (#34037596)
You're either 20 or haven't met a 20 year old in a looooong time.
Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by concordDance on Sunday December 18, 2022 @09:56AM (#34038250)
Mid 30s but do have one acquaintance who's 20. It's possible I have a biased sample, but I have honestly not noticed a big difference in decision making between 20 year olds and 40 year olds.
Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by hinkley on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:12PM (#34040548)
You probably do. My mentees are all very biased. I pick the ones who have a good head on their shoulders. We all had that friend who was an “old soul”. I spent a lot of my teens socializing with 30 year olds (bike club) so I’m probably seeing myself in these junior developers.

But not a year has gone by but I wish I had a time machine, not just for myself but for a friend who had big dreams when we were 16-26 and never found their way. Of the dozen smartest kids in our high school, one became a doctor (but married to the slacker in the group), one a lawyer, one a salty cynical programmer. I found one managing a movie theater a year after dropping out. One I imprinted on in college, because I thought she was so world-wise and knew what she wanted to be, ended up becoming a stay at home mom, never really had the writing career she hoped for. Student loans were part of that dynamic, which is another decision we put on children (see also John Mullaney).

Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by hinkley on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:07PM (#34040435)
Career choice. Elective surgeries.

You’re here talking to a group largely composed of people who won the career lottery. Did all of your college friends fare so well? How about high school? Hell in middle school and high school I had people trying to talk me out of software as a career because we were on one of the three AI hype cycles I’ve personally lived through.

It’s the rare, inspirational person who says Fuck It, I’m Starting Over in their thirties or even later. Many of the losers just live lives of quiet desperation. Those are the people I was thinking about above.

Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by serf on Sunday December 18, 2022 @06:57AM (#34036886)
The older I get the older the age of 'irresponsible youth' becomes. Now it's past the twenties..?

I think people deserve to control their own fate, disastrous consequences be damned. That's part of life, and always has been. To pretend that we need to protect against that type of insecurity is absurd.

Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by pessimizer on Sunday December 18, 2022 @10:21AM (#34038492)
> The older I get the older the age of 'irresponsible youth' becomes. Now it's past the twenties..?

I feel the same way, but with the opposite conclusion. The older I get, the more larval and innocent teenagers and twenty-somethings seem.

I mistake 25 year-olds for 17 year olds. When I'm explaining something, sometimes I can't think of a historical or technological analogy that a 25 year old is likely to understand.

I see the mistakes in reasoning that they're blundering into with the best intentions (and utmost seriousness) that could have been avoided by reading a little more, thinking a little longer - then realize I hadn't read that stuff by my early twenties either, and could have easily made the same mistake. Then I remember some of the mistakes I did make, and wish they had been harder for me to have made.

Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by hinkley on Sunday December 18, 2022 @01:01PM (#34040341)
I’d split the difference between the two opinions here. You have to let juniors make some mistakes. Both so that they can learn, and so you can teach anyone else around (wisdom is learning from the mistakes of others).

We don’t do this with gun safety, because the lesson comes too late and at too high a cost. There may be nobody to teach afterward. So we demand that they act a certain way and come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who fucks around.

But a medical implant isn’t just a personal decision, it’s a transactions with several other commercial enterprises, with financial interests in selling more of them. This will be the next heroin epidemic, or the one after that. It’s predatory. And as someone who has survived predators, it’s people like the three of us who have a moral obligation to watch out for predators while the children play. That’s part of the deal of being a pack/tribal mammal. It’s civilization.

Re:Abandoned: The human cost of neurotechnology failure by LtWorf on Sunday December 18, 2022 @05:42PM (#34044742)
> I think people deserve to control their own fate, disastrous consequences be damned

So you're ok with startups hiring homeless people as test subjects, because they are poor and will consent to basically anything?