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Re:Wendy Carlos: The brilliant but lonely life of an electro... by gertrui on Thursday December 15, 2022 @01:12PM (#34003385)
> She also lived in a time when April Ashley, who was the image of feminine beauty and grace, was accosted by old ladies in parks to shame her for "pretending" to be a woman once she was outed by UK tabloids just as her career began to take off.

The old ladies in the parks were very rude and shouldn't have done that, but, having "feminine beauty and grace" isn't a requirement of womanhood, it's not what makes someone a woman. This is unfortunately yet another gendered imposition, with women feeling like they have to adhere to a beauty standard that comes from the male gaze.

It doesn't help either when males who opt-in to this beauty standard for their own pleasure get praised as if they are being good women. On the plus side, at least Wendy Carlos wasn't trying to be an ultra-feminine caricature or anything like that, just living life making amazing music while also trying to achieve a more reasonable bodily satisfaction for a less distressing sense of self.

Re:Wendy Carlos: The brilliant but lonely life of an electro... by sassyonsunday on Thursday December 15, 2022 @01:20PM (#34003491)
That's true! I only felt the need to point it out to drive home the point that there is/was no winning move as a trans person. I feel the need to do this because I've met many people in my life who've tried to tell me things like that it 's obvious that I was "born to be a woman" so I shouldn't worry about transphobia because they think transphobia is only directed at people who look masculine but wear feminine clothes or sex pests who change their pronouns to try to seem less creepy. It's led me to believe that this might be a common position among people who are anti-trans. They think: "these bathroom policies will only hurt the bad ones who don't pass, the passable ones will be fine" as a way of soothing their conscience.
Re:Wendy Carlos: The brilliant but lonely life of an electro... by 8zah6q7 on Thursday December 15, 2022 @02:32PM (#34004450)
Transphobes don't want trans women to be masculine, androgynous, or feminine. When they're honest, they just don't want trans women to be.
Re:Wendy Carlos: The brilliant but lonely life of an electro... by gertrui on Thursday December 15, 2022 @02:52PM (#34004721)
> Aren't you just taking the place of the "male gaze" at that point and replacing it with your own gaze and your own demands to be satisfied?

No, women should be free to present however they please, that's my point. We shouldn't feel pressure to conform to imposed ideals of femininity, to be praised for it or knocked for not complying.

Re:Wendy Carlos: The brilliant but lonely life of an electro... by sassyonsunday on Thursday December 15, 2022 @03:44PM (#34005469)
> No, women should be free to present however they please, that's my point. We shouldn't feel pressure to conform to imposed ideals of femininity, to be praised for it or knocked for not complying.

I agree with you 100%. When I was in middle school I wanted to look very neat and proper and it caused me problems with boys. I can remember getting picked on for looking too... well groomed? I feel like the opposite pressure exists for people assigned female. I was born with the default option of not needing to look "pretty" in the sense of enhancing my feminine features with clothes and makeup but I enjoy life a lot more when I'm allowed to.

Re:Wendy Carlos: The brilliant but lonely life of an electro... by 8zah6q7 on Thursday December 15, 2022 @01:57PM (#34003978)
> This is unfortunately yet another gendered imposition, with women feeling like they have to adhere to a beauty standard that comes from the male gaze.

Women who are trans feel this pressure enforced against them with public humiliation, overt misogyny, and violence.

> It doesn't help either when males who opt-in to this beauty standard for their own pleasure get praised as if they are being good women.

Trans women aren't males and certainty don't opt-on to the male gaze. Are you referring to drag queens? There's a more nuanced conversation to be had there, but not in the current climate of terroristic acts against transgender people. Drag is often a critique of gender roles.

There is nothing grotesque about femininity or a trans woman expressing it.

Re:Wendy Carlos: The brilliant but lonely life of an electro... by somebody78978 on Thursday December 15, 2022 @03:44PM (#34005479)
> This is unfortunately yet another gendered imposition, with women feeling like they have to adhere to a beauty standard that comes from the male gaze.

Beauty standards are set and enforced by both men and women. A lot of women dress up to impress other women, not just men.