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Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by roenxi on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:17AM (#33982490)
> Engineers are of course partly responsible for the things they implement.

That is outrageous. The company owners have limited liability protections. The employees should receive at least that unless they are in a position that requires specific legal training like an engineer legislatively appointed to be responsible for some safety function. Where they are appointed and remunerated specifically for their legal responsibility, in other words.

And the court cases after WWII are hardly reliable precedent. They were basically making it up as they went with fairly flimsy justification apart from the fact they had a bunch of troops still in fighting form.

Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by enkid on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:41AM (#33982696)
Limited liability protects against financial loss, not criminal indictment. If you are an employee or owner and you do something to enable fraud the company as a whole is doing, you are still criminally liable.
Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by quickthrowman on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:45AM (#33982735)
> > Engineers are of course partly responsible for the things they implement.

> That is outrageous. The company owners have limited liability protections.

The owners have limited financial liability, not limited legal liability.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability

> Limited liability is a legal status in which a person's financial liability is limited to a fixed sum, most commonly the value of a person's investment in a corporation, company or partnership.

Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by morelisp on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:23AM (#33982544)
> > Engineers are of course partly responsible for the things they implement.

> That is outrageous.

And this is why software engineering is a joke.

Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by roenxi on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:28AM (#33982592)
Engineers are responsible for strictly technical failures. When a piece of software does what a representative of company management asks for it hasn't failed.

Software engineers are not lawyers and they are bad at interpreting laws.

Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by kasey_junk on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @08:03AM (#33982882)
I’ve received yearly training as part of my job outlining my civil and criminal liabilities as a software engineer going back 20 years. It’s par for the course in finance.
Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by rglullis on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:48AM (#33982754)
Engineering is all about working with constraints. Most of these are technical, but some of them are and should be ethical.

If the product of your engineering directly enables unethical actions, yes, you should bear some of the responsibility for it.

Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by morelisp on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @08:51AM (#33983434)
> Software engineers are not lawyers and they are bad at interpreting laws.

Right, so if something seems sketchy ("please ignore these specific deductions when calculating our holdings") , get a lawyer - or CEO or CFO or whatever - to say in writing that it's fine.

And if something seems actually illegal ("just run the blood test results out-of-spec and report them anyway") just don't do it. Nothing absolves you of some things.

Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by roenxi on Saturday December 17, 2022 @10:02AM (#34028278)
Sure. But if the engineer doesn't think it is sketchy enough to seek out a lawyer, why would they suddenly be liable for issues where they are obviously ignorant, and never expected to be competent?
Re:A software change allowed FTX to use client money by Avicebron on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:40AM (#33982688)
This isn't how ethics works, just doing my job doesn't work legally.