News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by BolexNOLA on Monday December 12, 2022 @07:38PM (#33962867)
I’ve always thought it was ridiculous that when YouTube (well technically google) et al throw up their hands and go “you can’t possibly expect us to vet all the content that we serve,” everyone just goes “ok sure that makes sense!” But if you used that excuse in, say, broadcast television, the FCC would just fine you twice as hard.

Imagine if that Miami building collapse happened under the ownership of somebody who owned 10 million properties worldwide, their response was “I manage so many properties you can’t expect me to adhere to every standard and regulation in all cases - it’s unreasonable,” and the US/FL governments just shrugged along and said “yeah I guess you’re right!” Wouldn’t that be absolutely absurd?

Yet here we are. Google, Facebook, etc. just wring their hands and say “trust our algorithms they can handle the scale,” the algorithms also are full of holes and create other problems, then they go “well shucks.” It’s baffling.

Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by jefftk on Monday December 12, 2022 @10:34PM (#33964427)
It sounds like you want a YouTube where every video is reviewed before it goes live: do you also want a Hacker News where every comment is reviewed before it goes live?
Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by prawn on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @06:22AM (#33967367)
Legal suicide for the host, I suspect.
Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by BolexNOLA on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @11:12AM (#33970801)
This isn’t the only way to accomplish the goal and frankly I suggested nothing of the sort. A little annoyed you just assumed that’s what I’m calling for but I’ll just assume it was in good faith anyway.

For starters, anyone can just make infinite YouTube channels/accounts/etc. right now. There are no roadblocks, there is no vetting, nothing. All of their solutions are reactive and often too late.

I’m not even saying that a desirable or good solution is to vet creators. But for them to throw up their hands and say “we have no way of controlling the faucet“ is completely dishonest. We need to stop just letting that be something we all implicitly accept. They are making such insane piles of money off a system they fully control that is creating social issues, but we just let them abandon responsibility for it.

Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by jefftk on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @11:15AM (#33970838)
Did you know anyone can make an HN account? With no vetting at all!
Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by Viliam1234 on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @07:36AM (#33982655)
Apparently it works for HN and doesn't work for YouTube, which is why HN should keep the system, and YouTube should change it.

I propose an alternative system, which would work better for YouTube than HN, because it is easier when more people use the service. When you create a new account, you have two options: either someone already on the network vouches for you, or you pay $20 (the more different methods of payment supported, the better). When your account is banned, if you paid the money it is lost; if someone vouched for you, their ability to vouch for people is limited somehow (e.g. normally you can only vouch for one person each month, and if someone you vouched for is banned, you lose this ability for 6 months).

To make the switch to new system easier, keep the legacy accounts (but without the ability to vouch for other people, unless someone vouches for them first, in which case they are no longer legacy accounts), and only apply this rule to accounts created in 2023 and later.

Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by BolexNOLA on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @12:10PM (#33971869)
This discussion no longer feels productive. If you’re just going to be tongue in cheek/sarcastic with me the whole time instead of having a discussion then feel free to move on.
Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by jefftk on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @01:27PM (#33973451)
Humor aside, my point is that YouTube and HN are pretty similar in their reliance on user-generated content. They both have no technical barriers to anyone signing up and posting anything they want: both have reactive post-publication moderation but not pre-publication vetting.

I think this is on balance a good and valuable thing about both sites. I was trying to show how your proposed solutions would, if applied here, make HN worse, as a way of illustrating why I don't think they're good solutions for YouTube.

(What made me think you were calling for pre-publication review was your "you can’t possibly expect us to vet all the content that we serve". Similarly, you objected to YouTube's approaches here as "reactive".)

Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by standardUser on Monday December 12, 2022 @11:13PM (#33964743)
The era of network TV was tightly controlled and ideologically narrow. It's not a mediascape anyone should want to return to.
Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by TomSwirly on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @05:20AM (#33966838)
> ideologically narrow

Translation: "Had a much more limited tolerance for pure bullshit."

Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by standardUser on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:57AM (#33969662)
No, it was racially segregated, sexually repressive, diligently anti-communist, mindlessly nationalist and controlled by a tiny group of corporations and the federal government.

What history are you pretending exists?

Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by BolexNOLA on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @11:13AM (#33970814)
It was both. I’m not sure why you’re framing this as an either/or situation.
Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by dbreunig on Monday December 12, 2022 @10:03PM (#33964201)
People don't generally die because of a YouTube video. And if that were a risk, you could report it and Google would take it down.
Re:Perhaps it is a bad thing that the leading AI companies c... by kevingadd on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @12:25AM (#33965167)
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-...

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/pranavdixit/whatsapp-de...

> Five days after the event, the police had rounded up most of the suspects. Each admitted to attacking the five men — all nomads passing through Rainpada, a tribal hamlet 200 miles northeast of Mumbai — and each said they’d done so after watching shocking videos on WhatsApp warning of outsiders abducting children.

Turns out that in the recent past content including videos (not on YouTube, but shared on other social media services via group chats etc) has in fact resulted in deaths!