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Re:How a dangerous stew of air pollution is choking the Unit... by hombre_fatal on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @03:04PM (#33899481)
Is controlled burning some lost technology that only a modern druid can bring back? Or is it something states already do, and when they don't, it's for political reasons and various other concerns and even failings, not because there's nobody who knows how to steward the burn?

I could even imagine that, for political reasons, some indigenous entity is the right hand for the job. But surely not because they possess some secret hereditary epistemology in 2022.

Re:How a dangerous stew of air pollution is choking the Unit... by culi on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @03:38PM (#33899897)
Controlled burns are something firefighters are something many states are finally starting to recognize the importance of and providing funding for. However, given how critically understaffed firefighters are (e.g. California has ~3.5k fighterfighters total, down from 5k a few years ago) and how undertrained they are for a technique that has only recently been recognized for its importance, it's hard to imagine us having any success without the help of the indigenous communities that are fighting for the RIGHT to practice their cultural burns

Besides that, prescribed burns and cultural burns often have different goals. Firefighters sole goal is to use up residual fuel sources to prevent larger fires. Cultural burning practices are often done with the aim of supporting the health of forests and other ecosystems. They're often much more narrowly scoped and frequent and require much more intimate knowledge of specific ecosystems and landscapes. Given that so many tribes have been displaced from their homeland, a lot of this knowledge is lost. But the goals of these communities are to revitalize landscapes with the intent of returning to them and make use of them. I think it's that fundamental difference in goals that tends to cultivate much more thorough ecological knowledge about specific landscapes often shown in cultural burning practices

Hazard-reduction burns also simply use different techniques. They tend to rely on drip-torches to burn through control lines. These types of fires are controlled but still very hot and damaging to the soil. Compare that to indigenous experts that use a wide range of techniques to ensure the fires are as slow moving and cool as possible

Re:How a dangerous stew of air pollution is choking the Unit... by justinwp on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @03:51PM (#33900054)
Having spent years working for USFS/NPS etc I disagree with your take that prescribed burns have significantly different goals. The scoping documents always identify numerous benefits to forest health and are created with input from specialists ranging from hydrologists to biologists and archeologists. The techniques are not necessarily relevant to fire intensity which is more a result of current conditions.
Re:How a dangerous stew of air pollution is choking the Unit... by culi on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @04:31PM (#33900564)
Fair enough. I appreciate your experience, but I'd just like to point out that many indigenous communities find them to be rather different:

> But there are important differences in philosophy and execution between prescribed burns and cultural burning in their approach to the land, Goode says. Agencies tend to focus on acreage and fuel reduction, relying upon natural features or previous fires to control potential spread. Forestry technicians may prioritize large-scale pile burning, for example, then leave when it is done.[0]

> This style of burning is a planned and deliberate fire used within control lines to manage a Forest to reduce fuel loads for the safety of people/ townships/ assets and infrastructure. One of the main reasons is for wildfire suppression. [...] Cultural Fire practices are quite different, it is just one tool to help manage Country. Cultural Fire is used in unison with the landscape and the environment. Working with the Local First Nations community is essential. It is the local Mob who know their Country and their connection to Fire and knowledge of the local Forest. This knowledge is important to the way that fire is implemented. Using the local knowledge of reading Country an area will be selected to put in fire.[1]

Additionally, you may be right that "current conditions" are a significant determiner to fire intensity, but I think that also falls into the same issue of the need for localized ecological and geographical knowledge:

> Aboriginal people must be involved as they know when to burn, where to burn and how to execute a burn.[2]

Keeping fires "cool" is particularly focused on by aboriginal burners:

> The central idea of Cool Burns is fire management using a ‘cool’ fire. Night times and early mornings are ideal for these fires as nightly dew helps cool down the fire and the winds are often gentle. The practice involves lighting low fires in small areas on foot, with matches or, traditionally, with fire sticks. These fires are closely monitored, ensuring that only the underbrush is burnt. Cool Burns not only clear areas of land, they also ensure that seeds and nutrients in the soil are not baked and destroyed. In fact, these fires assist in changing vegetation structures by reducing the density of risk factor plants such as Bracken Fern or Casuarina which lead to extreme fuel loads.[3]

[0] https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/how-indigenous-p...

[1] https://australian.museum/learn/first-nations/cultural-fire-...

[2] https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/land/abor...

[3] https://www.watarrkafoundation.org.au/blog/aboriginal-fire-m...

Re:How a dangerous stew of air pollution is choking the Unit... by justinwp on Wednesday December 07, 2022 @05:57PM (#33901587)
> unison with the landscape and the environment

These are meaningless distinctions.

> the need for localized ecological and geographical knowledge

Fire managers and all of the other resource specialists for the majority of agencies are already local.

> cool fires

not anything unique here. depends entirely on the objectives/goals. if it is to remove juniper in the southwest US, a smoldering fire won't be enough. wildland fire fighters already almost exclusively do the most work at night whether it is a prescribed fire or wildfire. it's a distinction without meaning.

techniques used today are almost always a function of numerous risk calculations and political factors; not some lack of understanding of fire behavior or local knowledge