News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by JoshTriplett on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @05:55PM (#3379497)
I strongly disagree. Every juror should understand that they have a responsibility to consider the law, not just the facts. In most trials, that consideration will amount to "Yup, the law seems fine", with no further thought required. However, I believe that consideration ought to happen in every single trial, with every single juror. No reasonable doubt should exist that the law remains just and appropriate.

If that means we get a few more "not guilty" verdicts than we should, so be it. We make the same tradeoff with "innocent until proven guilty" and "beyond a reasonable doubt": better to let guilty people free than convict innocent people. The difference: we need "beyond a reasonable doubt" applied to laws, not just to people.

Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by tzs on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @07:48PM (#3379816)
We already have a system to make sure laws remain appropriate: it is called an elected legislature.

They system you are suggesting would in effect turn every trial into a little election on what the law should be, but with only a small fraction of the electorate voting, and the results only applying to that one case.

Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by JoshTriplett on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @09:07PM (#3380018)
Checks and balances considered useful. I always want the option to exist, even though people won't need it in most cases.

And also, every case adds to the case history; it doesn't take many cases to create a pattern. So no, the results don't only apply to that one case. And even if they do, a single instance of well-applied nullification might not mean much to the general public, but it means the world to the defendant.

Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by zachrose on Thursday December 22, 2011 @02:57AM (#3380819)
>> We already have a system to make sure laws remain appropriate: it is called an elected legislature.

The legislature does no such thing. Theoretically, representatives do their job by pandering to constituent majorities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by sliverstorm on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @08:45PM (#3379968)
Indeed, selective application of the law is a tyranny in itself, and the public gets awfully bent out of shape when police officers try it.
Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by jeffdavis on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @07:13PM (#3379728)
Where does it stop?

Say someone is on trial for tax evasion, because they paid only 20% rather than the 30% they owe under the law. Is it OK for a juror to say "gee, taxes should only be 20% anyway, so I'm going to let him off the hook"?

Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by JoshTriplett on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @09:04PM (#3380015)
On a one-off basis, this doesn't represent any significant change to the system. People won't start evading taxes on the theory that they can argue for jury nullification, because they won't consistently get away with it.

On the other hand, with a tax rate of 90% (to use an extreme example), juries might start consistently acquitting people for not paying their taxes, and that sends a message.

In any case, I don't want to see any measures taken to stop the scenario you describe. It'll work out just fine on its own.

Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by dennisgorelik on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @07:31PM (#3379768)
Yes, if jurors feel that way about tax laws - then yes - acquit the defendant and possibly start changing tax law.
Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by neilparikh on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @08:31PM (#3379925)
But then you're bringing opinion into the law. If the jurors on one trial think that 30% isn't fair, but jurors on another trial think that it is fair, you haven't got a fair system anymore. Isn't the law based on justice and fairness?

And this doesn't only apply to tax laws. There could be a difference of opinion on other cases too.

While the law nullification idea is a good idea in theory, it starts to break down in practice.

Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by dennisgorelik on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @08:46PM (#3379972)
The whole idea of having jurors is to bring opinion of peers into making judgement about the case.

Of course it's better to make a system that would be consistently fair (e.g. keep taxes at the level vast majority of society supports it). But if two available options are "not fair" and "not always fair" - I'd pick "not always fair".

Re:Jurors Need to Know That They Can Say No by kingkilr on Wednesday December 21, 2011 @11:01PM (#3380309)
The supreme court has in past found that punishments which are capriciously applied are inherently cruel and unusual (Furman v. Georgia).