News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Emacs 29 by esparrohack on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @12:57PM (#33790849)
Emacs was a great editor just like Nirvana was a great band. It’s influenced every other editor after it.

People are always going to love it. But I think all the best ideas from that era have been taken.

I like Vim but EMacs won the editor wars

Re:Emacs 29 by bergheim on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @01:37PM (#33791372)
> Emacs was a great editor just like Nirvana was a great band. It’s influenced every other editor after it.

Eh.. Which every other editor would that be?

There is a mode [0] you can enable just because of how different it is to every other popular editor ever. Still.

0: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CuaMode

Re:Emacs 29 by esparrohack on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @01:40PM (#33791403)
Ooo we could go on forever. Let’s start with VS Code
Re:Emacs 29 by bergheim on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @02:30PM (#33792064)
That's my point. How did emacs influence this? Emacs is nothing like that. If anything, emacs has failed. Everything else is either proprietary or company/plugin based. And mouse based.

Imagine spending 8 hours a day for the rest of your life and you still want a cursor based popup telling you what you might or might not want to do instead of having muscle memory of what you do.

Re:Emacs 29 by esparrohack on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @02:44PM (#33792255)
Emacs had a GUI and mouse support forever on Windows. It was “bloated and slow”.

Yeah the free software stuff didn’t work but that’s not all the editor wars were about.

I think we’re just missing each other here. The best features of eMacs spread to other editors.

As for the scenario, I don’t see that as a hellish situation. I’ve been using vim for a while. Im actually ok at it.

Do I regret learning it? Hell yeah. Lol. But at least I got vim mode to soothe the wound a little

Re:Emacs 29 by bergheim on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @03:28PM (#33792818)
> Emacs had a GUI and mouse support forever on Windows.

Emacs did not invent the mouse cursor interface.

> It was “bloated and slow”.

This comes from not understanding how emacs works. Yes, it has games, no, it is not loaded until you load it. It means nothing, it does not mean bloat.

> I think we’re just missing each other here. The best features of eMacs spread to other editors.

I think we might - it's Emacs not eMacs.

> As for the scenario, I don’t see that as a hellish situation. I’ve been using vim for a while. Im actually ok at it.

Great! I love vim. In fact I used it for 15 years before switching. I would not be using emacs as my everything if evil-mode was not a thing.

> Do I regret learning it? Hell yeah. Lol. But at least I got vim mode to soothe the wound a little

Sometimes I think the same thing.. Everytime there is no vi mode I get annoyed. I try to be open to new software, but cua-mode (or default emacs keys) is not it for me.

Re:Emacs 29 by esparrohack on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @09:34PM (#33796271)
I get your first point. I’m saying it was the most popular so that’s why it’s ideas spread. I’m only thinking of eMacs and Vim cus the editor wars were so big.

In the 2nd point, I’m just saying what the popular complaints were. I wasn’t trying to prove them either way. Just what the battles were about. I wasn’t there so I’m thinking like an archeologist here.

I know about the misspelling of eMacs but I’m on my phone. I don’t mean anything with it. Just too lazy to fix it.

There’s good stuff in Vim and I like it but yeah not gonna die and say “well! Glad I learned vim!”.

Live and learn. I’m still thinking what band Vim would be

Re:Emacs 29 by hiq on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @01:01PM (#33790910)
I guess you can make the same statements about vim, given that there's a vim mode in most popular IDEs.
Re:Emacs 29 by esparrohack on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @01:27PM (#33791241)
But as an addon. No one stole modal editing and the quirky key bindings as a core feature.

The real split was whether people wanted an editor to work like an IDE or not. Everyone did. Even Vim.

I think it makes more sense they are there for those of us who know Vim but one day we’ll all die out

Re:Emacs 29 by sph on Thursday December 01, 2022 @09:40AM (#33816796)
vim is an editing system.

Emacs is a platform centered around text.

Re:Emacs 29 by scombridae on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @01:15PM (#33791078)
I like vim but emacs won the editor wars

It's hard to imagine a definition of "win" that goes from roughly 50% popularity to less than 5%.

Re:Emacs 29 by esparrohack on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @01:21PM (#33791154)
No, because I said influence. You are thinking adoption. That actually boosts my point
Re:Emacs 29 by tikhonj on Tuesday November 29, 2022 @03:20PM (#33792715)
The key with Emacs is that it's an editor that grows: the close mapping between the editor and its code makes it more fluid and natural to extend than any other popular tool I've tried. It's a fuzzy distinction—not something you can put on a feature checklist—but it's made working with Emacs qualitatively different from working with other tools. While Emacs has certainly influenced other editors, none of the ones I'm familiar with have carried over this core philosophy.
Re:Emacs 29 by esparrohack on Wednesday November 30, 2022 @11:44AM (#33803373)
I get that but in this case I’m only interested in the features that were so influential, and the reasons behind that.

I don’t think EMacs or Vim will come back. They have revivals, I came in during one of those. This is definitely one of them.