That's what people are indoctrinated, causing a lot of people to start a family too soon. However, I assure you many who have kids are not happy, especially while raising them in poverty or on unlivable wages.

"indoctrinated". You say that like people who say this are selling rotten fruit as new.

You can verify this for yourself. Go to an old folks home. Ask them about their lives. See how many don't bring up their children. Or mention them with regret. Look into their eyes as they speak of them.

In my experience everyone wears their children like badges of honor and any regrets are about not doing enough for them or having their priorities not family oriented enough.

This is the perspective of the oldest among us with the longest time here to contemplate what they find most important.

Yes, we preach it, have preached it. This doesn't make it any less true, because it is true. Your being given the keys to life and your appear to want to question.

Today's poor people are richer than rich people way back when those old folks were raising children.

I've been quite poor and with children. I'm intimately familiar with the pain of being poor. Speaking from my experience, in 20 years your poorness won't matter, but your children, if any, will.

Waiting for perfection before having children is like never shipping because there are flaws in the code. Sure, you try not to ship crap but it still must go out as best as you can manage.

As a product of generational trauma, I find the "no perfect time, just have kids" mentality disgusting. Perhaps these old people's regrets about not doing enough for their children is because they didn't prepare properly to actually have children. Children being used to prop up your own self image strips both you and your child of their individuality. People should want more in life than to "have children" and need to give the decision to have children the proper weight it deserves. If someone does not feel satisfied in their own self or their relationship, they should avoid having children hoping to fill a void.

I assure you that just magically hoping the poorness goes away after 20 years doesn't magically result in it happening, nor does time effortlessly unwind the trauma or mend the damage done by generations of people who were ill prepared to take care of children.

> As a product of generational trauma, I find the "no perfect time, just have kids" mentality disgusting.

The families of the earth do need improvement. That starts with individual choices to be better, do better. However, you are disgusted at the wrong thing. Having children isn't the issue. Being bad to then is. And money isn't the fulcrum you make it out to be.

> Perhaps these old people's regrets about not doing enough for their children are because they didn't prepare properly to actually have children.

Generally it was along the lines that they regret their unnecessary selfish pursuits over family time. Working more for a nice car or boat, an example.

> assure you that just hoping the poorness goes away after 20 years doesn't magically result in it happening,

That isn't really my argument now is it. And this isn't the only time in your response where you do this. Makes a conversation kind of pointless when you just put whatever words and points in my mouth you feel like and ignore the main points.

> nor does time effortlessly unwind the trauma or mend the damage done by generations of people who were ill prepared to take care of children.

Your life has challenges. Most do. You are human like the rest of us. Stop blaming your forebears, even if they have some fault, and rise to the occasion.

I think your attempts to be profound come off as incredibly naive with regards to the realities of a traumatic upbringing. These relationships impact your whole life.

You do not get to choose your parents. Your parents should choose a good time & place to have children & not cave to pressure from foolish people waxing poetic about finding meaning by living through their children.

I absolutely will blame my abusers, and I will blame their abusers too. I don't see how "earth families" will improve without accountability. We certainly don't need people telling victims to stop asking for it.