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Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by EGreg on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:07PM (#33722518)
For now, I would simply ask that you go through the many applications here and tell me if you see smart contracts being very useful for collectively managaing high-value decisions and capital after reading: https://intercoin.org/applications
Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by kspacewalk2 on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @01:14PM (#33722617)
Can you instead point out the one (strongest, best) application for which the case of using blockchain solves a big problem in a way that's better than existing alternatives, given all their respective advantages and drawbacks?

I'm lazy, you see. Conveniently forgot to mention that.

Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by EGreg on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @07:35PM (#33726410)
Sure. How about the one where:

1. Communities around the world issue their own currencies independent of the dollar (believe it or not, this is as important for financial stability as not just relying on Facebook’s server farms in California)

2. They give their members a UBI in the local currency that they can only spend locally

3. The amount of daily UBI to give out is determined by the vendors in the community voting on it (monetary policy)

4. Have each vendor tagged with “food”, “clothing” etc. and apply taxes to make negative externalities more costly and withdraw money from the economy (fiscal policy)

5. Calculate statistics on how money flows locally in the smart economy and have economists make recommendations about the fiscal and monetary policies, while the population continuously gets to adjust them up and down based on these recommendations

6. Hooking up all such communities to a decentralized exchange called Intercoin, where the central currency is only held by real KYCed communities and isn’t easily susceptible to pumps and dumps by speculators and banks like Goldman Sachs, and also encourages recurring and sustainable value exchanges between communities

7. Allowing tourists to buy the local currency, and allowing individuals around the world to donate to the community and see stats how the money is being used

More info here for instance:

https://intercoin.org/communities.pdf

If this is too vague here is a concrete example:

https://community.intercoin.app/t/fund-for-refugees/2688

Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by tremon on Thursday November 24, 2022 @04:57AM (#33729518)
What problem does this one solve, and how does it solve it? To me, this just looks like how a normal currency works, "but on a computer". Is the (claimed) advantage that you can narrow the scope of a currency? I just don't see the benefits in doing so.
Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by EGreg on Thursday November 24, 2022 @04:13PM (#33736308)
Well, that sounds exactly like what people said about all the other technologies that were "on a computer". Watch this exchange, for instance, between Bill Gates and David Letterman... about "this internet thing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgODUgHeT5Y

Or the Today show wondering what the point is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJku_CSyNg

Technology empowers individuals and smaller communities. That's what it does throughout history. Personal computers. Personal printers. Now you can send email instead of relying on a centralized post office. VOIP disrupted Ma Bell monopolies in our lifetimes, instead of $3 a minute phone calls you can now do full videoonferencing for free. The Web instead of gatekeepers at radio, TV, magazines, newspapers, etc.

In all of those cases, you could question why "on a computer" matters. Who needs email when there are phonecalls? Who needs the Web anyway when there is email? Who needs online dating sites when there are matchmakers?

Nathan Myrhvold at Microsoft told people at Excite that "search is not a business".

Economist Paul Krugman wrote that by 2005, it would become clear that the Internet's effect on the economy is no greater than the fax machine's.

Well, these smart contracts are programmable, and you program against one widespread platform, like JVM or in this case EVM. That's a huge benefit. You can have programmable money, programmable elections, without having to deal with thousands of APIs, or as you are saying "normal" physical currency. Governments in fact also want to phase out cash, and even bank credit, and create centrally controlled "CBDCs" so your "normal" money is also under attack by your governments. China and USA and Canada have already done it and they'd love to be able to freeze people's accounts, restrict them from getting on trains, etc. It may be preferable to incarcerating them later on for years, as we do in the USA.

Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by nradov on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @02:30PM (#33723503)
I read the list of applications. All of them seem pointless, or at least inferior to what we already have. Obviously the people writing these lists are unclear on the basics and probably haven't even read the NIST blockchain technology overview.

https://www.nist.gov/publications/blockchain-technology-over...

Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by EGreg on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @07:40PM (#33726455)
Why does it seem pointless?

What they all have in common is cutting out an inefficient rentseeking middleman that people have been forced to trust. Yes that includes FTX, Binance, Coinbase and governments.

Here is an example… how would you do this internationally without crypto?

https://community.intercoin.app/t/fund-for-refugees

Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by nradov on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @07:48PM (#33726521)
It's a stupid idea. There are plenty of good charities already helping refugees. You can just donate cash to them. Using cryptocurrency just complicates things without adding any value or solving any real problems.
Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by EGreg on Wednesday November 23, 2022 @08:08PM (#33726661)
Sorry, but no. You don’t seem to be very knowledgeable about what these charities actually get done and their efficiency.

The real problems are making global payments directly to the people on the ground without waste and having confidence in how they are spent.

This works with the existing infrastructure in every city — similarly to point-of-sale machines that VISA and Mastercard did a lot of work to set up over decades. Back then you would be asking why the world needs credit cards and payment systems when there were perfectly good cash based systems and charities on the ground.

Anyway, the vendors sell food, the person shows up and buys the food. We know how the money was spent. The people help people.

To try to show you by analogy… it is as if people said that there should be a decentralized and uncensorable network for uploading videos taken by people’s own dashcams, phones, etc. of rockets hitting buildings, detention campa etc. But you’d keep saying that the Associated Press and the current centralized media is perfectly adequate and reports everything we need to know, and if people wanted they could upload their videos to Telegram or some other adhoc solution that isnt designed like the news agencies. Why decentralize anything? Because the people DON’T get a good system otherwise

Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by nradov on Thursday November 24, 2022 @01:29AM (#33728334)
Actually I'm more knowledgeable about this stuff than you are, and it's still a stupid idea. It fails to account for all the tax and legal compliance issues that vendors have to deal with.

And real vendors don't want cryptocurrency magic beans anyway. They want useful currency like dollars or euros that they can use to pay their own suppliers.

Re:Chief scientist of major corporation can’t handle critici... by EGreg on Thursday November 24, 2022 @04:08PM (#33736257)
I doubt that. But hey, if you're so knowledgeable, then you'd realize that the systems do in fact support taxation and make auditing for compliance with any goals far easier.

Technology empowers individuals and smaller communities. That's what it does throughout history. Personal computers. Personal printers. VOIP instead of $3 a minute phone calls. The Web instead of gatekeepers at radio, TV, magazines, newspapers, etc.

In all of those cases, you would probably say "the real vendors don't want the Internet anyway". Who needs email when there are phonecalls? Who needs the Web anyway when there is email? Who needs online dating sites when there are matchmakers?

Nathan Myrhvold at Microsoft told people at Excite that "search is not a business".

Economist Paul Krugman wrote that by 2005, it would become clear that the Internet's effect on the economy is no greater than the fax machine's.

You'd be in good company ... a lot of smug people have always said this newfangled stuff is totally useless because people are perfectly fine using the "useful" systems they've always used, not "magic beans" like this new programmable money.