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Re:You're in a Cult by jerf on Monday November 21, 2022 @10:24AM (#33693567)
Are there varying degrees? Sure.

Can QAnon be a cult in a more strict sense of the term? I have a hard time believing in the existence of a cult that exists over the internet where most or all of its members are internet handles; how exactly does one punish "slimeDogAvarest281" for betraying the cult? Or per cainxinth's point, how does on perform "secret rites" over the internet?

I think that gets back to grandparent's point that not everything is a cult and you diminish the term using it so freely. "There's a group that believes things I don't like and think is silly" is not a cult. I don't think you understand the sheer degree of social pressure cults can bring to bear, and I don't think that sort of pressure can be transmitted over a channel the so-called cult member can just shut off and disappear and nobody knows how to follow them. Or, to put it another way, when the exit is as easy as the entrance, it really can't be a cult. I think critical to the cult aspect is that you can't just leave. Did Scott Adams chase you down and tell his followers to harass you? No, of course not. How could he? Neither he nor anyone else even so much as noticed you. That's not a cult by any definition.

Re:You're in a Cult by orblivion on Monday November 21, 2022 @10:33AM (#33693678)
It's not the silliness of the beliefs, I'm talking about the rabbithole thinking phenomenon. What I saw with QAnon (and I experienced in my own thinking) reminds me of what I hear about Scientology, where people are revealed increasingly fantastical things as they continue in.

I'm not saying this makes a cult, I'll take your point there. But I am wondering if it's an aspect of a real cult, i.e. if these can be called "cult tactics". And if so, if there's at least value in making the qualified comparison. QAnon is still detrimental, introspection still worthwhile to avoid such things, etc. Nobody will chase me down, but it can still be detrimental (even if not a cult) if I still actually believe in it (which I imagine many cult members do and which also helps keep them in the cult).

And to be clear, Scott Adams wasn't detrimental other than making me feel stupid. QAnon is worse.

Re:You're in a Cult by acuozzo on Monday November 21, 2022 @10:49AM (#33693883)
> how exactly does one punish "slimeDogAvarest281" for betraying the cult?

Ostracism and doxxing work well. The latter opens up opportunities for SWATing.

> how does on perform "secret rites" over the internet?

In Qanon the "secret rite" is going down the YouTube rabbit hole and writing endless diatribes for other cult members to consume.

Re:You're in a Cult by jerf on Monday November 21, 2022 @11:40AM (#33694554)
"In Qanon the "secret rite" is going down the YouTube rabbit hole and writing endless diatribes for other cult members to consume."

No, that lacks the characteristics of all "secret rites". If you're "writing diatribes" and posting them publicly, that's not secret, for one big problem.

I can't exactly write an essay here about what secret rites are and what a key structural component they are, but you can get a good sense about them from reading about hazing, then amping it up to the next degree: https://people.howstuffworks.com/culture-traditions/national... (It was actually hard to find something that actually talks about why it occurs and is a stable pattern in human subcultures, rather than just decrying it without explanation. I don't like it and don't agree with it; in hindsight, I accidentally broke the hazing chain in my high school band because I refused to propagate it. It was an accident, though, because I didn't understand the purpose. Now I do, and both know even more effectively how I'd break the chain and how to attain similar goals in an organization in positive and healthy ways deliberately, instead of accidentally.) "Writing endless diatribes" is nothing like hazing and accomplishes none of the same goals.

Re:You're in a Cult by coryrc on Monday November 21, 2022 @10:57AM (#33693973)
> how exactly does one punish "slimeDogAvarest281" for betraying the cult?

The usual way -- ostracization. If your main socialization is via the cult, then leaving means losing your friends. The stupidity of the cult means you have pushed away most other people.

Re:You're in a Cult by jerf on Monday November 21, 2022 @11:35AM (#33694478)
I would say this continues to be "I have a definition and I want to stretch it to fit because I like calling those people 'cultists'". It sounds like I'll be "ostracized" exactly the same if I leave HN, if we stretch "ostracization" to include "well, I used to talk to those people in that forum but now I don't, so I'm being 'ostracized'".

I wasn't in a "cult" because I was once, a long time ago, in an Ultima fan community, but then was "ostracized" because I left. I just left. There were no consequences beyond the fact that I left. The problem with cults is that they don't "ostracize" you by virtue of failing to chase you down if you leave, they are cults because they do chase you down if you leave. Again, I have a hard time believing in "cults" when the "cult" in question literally doesn't even notice you. That's not a cult.

Re:You're in a Cult by drewbug01 on Monday November 21, 2022 @02:46PM (#33696984)
There’s being ostracized, and then there’s being ostracized.

Or said less opaquely, most people have never truly experienced being ostracized in the way that a cult can. Most people have social ties outside of a group, and maintain those, even if their primary social ties are cut (as you’ve alluded to).

(I know we are arguing the same side of this point, I just wanted to emphasize it)