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Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by dijit on Sunday November 20, 2022 @05:31PM (#33686171)
If you'll allow me to go on a tangent here;

The sheer volume of subscription services I've signed up for as the CTO for a startup is mind-boggling. $8 here, $19 there, $49 for something important, $99 for something essential.

Some tools are easily worth it, especially when you see what is charged for other (less valuable) tools.

Gitlab, Confluence, Jira, Asana, 1Password, co-pilot, codepen, sentry, jetbrains, gitlab plugins for jetbrains, Visual Studio, Docker Desktop, Perforce, Slack, etc;etc;etc;etc

Then there's things like Spacelift ($250!)!

The most frustrating thing is that:

1) I need to justify these expenses each for what value they bring, some things are nice to have but bring so little value on paper.

2) You can't just enable tools for some people, there's huge overlap and that overlap gets greater

I get that people need to be paid, but these things very quickly add up. I'm paying about 7-13% of peoples salaries already in these subscriptions, and I feel like a total dick for saying no to people or trying to consolidate these.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by einpoklum on Sunday November 20, 2022 @05:38PM (#33686256)
> Some tools are easily worth it, especially when you see what is charged for other (less valuable) tools.

Maybe, but most of the tools you listed are not in that category IMNSHO.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by dijit on Monday November 21, 2022 @05:41AM (#33691071)
Which category?

Ones I excluded for bring "not worth it" are Lens ($20/user/mo), Snyk ($139/user/month) and Postman ($36/user/month) - contrast those with Gitlabs pricing to understand the value trade-off.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by LtWorf on Monday November 21, 2022 @08:17AM (#33692144)
What's the point of using snyk AND copilot?

You either care about licenses of dependencies or just decide copyright doesn't apply to you :D Seems that using both is a contradiction.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by dijit on Monday November 21, 2022 @10:32AM (#33693663)
Snyk is not just for licenses, it's for security scanning.

They have a bunch of rules for IaC that prevent default behaviour from biting you in the butt.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by trilobyte on Monday November 21, 2022 @11:25PM (#33701881)
Snyk is for security scanning. How is that a contradiction w/ copilot?
Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by jnwatson on Sunday November 20, 2022 @05:49PM (#33686359)
The weird thing is that 13% seems high. It is hard to imagine they are less than 13% more efficient with those tools.

It is weird that software engineers are the only engineer-types that are supposed to be able to do their job with just a computer and a built-in editor.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by NateEag on Sunday November 20, 2022 @06:32PM (#33686724)
> It is weird that software engineers are the only engineer-types that are supposed to be able to do their job with just a computer and a built-in editor.

Not really. We aren't actually engineers. Someone appropriated the title and misused it, and now there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by wolpoli on Sunday November 20, 2022 @07:12PM (#33687052)
Even then, software engineers tend to have more control over the work process than other roles.
Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by jnwatson on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:22PM (#33710017)
I would have agreed with you 20 years ago. Now, the cloud architecture stuff is real engineering.
Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by NateEag on Thursday November 24, 2022 @08:55AM (#33731302)
there are genuine software engineers, yes.

I have yet to meet or work with one.

Engineering is expensive, and most software developers rightly default to a pragmatic craftsman's attitude. Build something people can use and iterate on it based on feedback.

When there aren't lives at stake, it's usually the right call.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by OkayPhysicist on Monday November 21, 2022 @08:09PM (#33700524)
Software development is the only field I can think of where the making of the tools of the trade is wholly encapsulated by the field itself. Maybe blacksmithing. In such an environment, it makes sense. We make our own tools, and for the most part the most powerful of those tools end up being given away for free. To other people who both use the tools, and have the capacity to improve them. Who then give them away for free.

It is not a coincidence that software development tooling is one of the only fields that has has been thoroughly eaten by open source. It's because the user-developer circle is complete. A mechanical engineer probably doesn't have the skillset to improve the CAD program they're running. A software developer probably has the skillset to improve VIM.

Re:Kite is saying farewell, and is open-sourcing all of its ... by jnwatson on Tuesday November 22, 2022 @02:19PM (#33709962)
Woodworkers make many of their own tools.