Eliza Is Turing Complete

Re:Eliza Is Turing Complete by anthay on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @02:24PM (#33629016)

Weizenbaum says the list must be there, but may be empty: "Finally, the script writer must begin his script with a list, i.e., a message enclosed in parentheses, which contains the statement he wishes ELIZA to type when the system is first loaded. This list may be empty." page 42 of the 1966 CACM ELIZA paper.

And the MEMORY keyword "must be an ordinary keyword as well." So you'd need a (XYZZY ...) rule.

Also, the START symbol appears in the DOCTOR script, but is never mentioned in the body of the paper.

Another thing Weizenbaum doesn't mention in his description is the final empty list in the DOCTOR script. This does seem to be expected by the code.

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Re:Eliza Is Turing Complete by masswerk on Thursday November 17, 2022 @05:29AM (#33637074)

I guess, some of these may have been artefacts from how the printout was produced. Notably, ELIZA was an extensible system, meant to start with a small script, to be extended progressively, and featured "live" editing capabilities. According to the 1966 paper, "START" is actually ELIZA's answer after returning from an editing session. And I wouldn't be shocked, if the final empty list had been placed there for convenience by the system.

Other: It has been a while, since I had a closer look at ELIZA, and I have to admit that I forgot most about the intrinsics of the MEMORY rule. :-)

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Re:Eliza Is Turing Complete by anthay on Thursday November 17, 2022 @02:00PM (#33643841)

I agree with you. I think the presence of START is accidental and is not supposed to be part of the script. The ELIZA code uses a Slip function called LISTRD to read the script rules one by one. If it reads an empty list it stops reading the script and begins the conversation. So I think the empty list at the end of the script had a reason to be there. Another accidental thing about the script in the CACM paper is that there are 6 duplicated lines, each one 34 lines from the previous one. I had not heard of Moiré logic. I'm contributing to a book about ELIZA and its legacy. No publisher yet. The editors may be looking for other contributors. I realize this is not much to go on, but say if it might be of interest to you.

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Re:Eliza Is Turing Complete by masswerk on Friday November 18, 2022 @05:08AM (#33652669)

Oh thanks, but I don't think that I have much to contribute. I had been musing about a faithful ElIZA emulation a few years ago, but ELIZAGEN put somewhat an end to this.

"Moiré logic" was a joke, meaning, an interference pattern caused by two layers of logical state.

Well, there's actually one thing, I can contribute: The famous photo of Weizenbaum on a terminal (sometimes attributed to the German magazine "Die Zeit") – e.g. here [1] – seems to show Weizenbaum on a Lorenz teletypewriter [2], so there is some probability to the photo actually having been taken in Germany.

[1] https://maeda.pm/2019/02/11/joseph-weizenbaum-humanist-techn...

[2] https://twitter.com/RetroWizzard/status/1419658098210451459 (1st image)

PS: You may find this one (my own doing) amusing: https://masswerk.at/eliza/

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Re:Eliza Is Turing Complete by anthay on Saturday November 19, 2022 @08:21AM (#33669794)

Thank you for the links. Lovely online ELIZA. I appreciate you responding.

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