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Re:The Queen's Coup by doingtheiroming on Friday November 11, 2022 @03:54AM (#33558533)
The assumption that things like this necessarily increase support for republicanism is probably misplaced. In Italy and Greece Governments have been effectively overthrown by the EU (or ECB/IMF) in fairly open ways with technocrats put in charge. In both countries support for the EU is running at very high levels despite that. Higher levels in fact that when it happened.

The U.K. monarchy clearly lacks the wherewithal to influence Australian politics today that it possibly had back then and has nothing like the influence (through the Euro) of the ECB on the democratic Governments of Eurozone countries.

The lesson might actually be (ironically if so) that the monarchy would be more resilient to republican opinion if it wielded more power. It is the perceived pointlessness of it that will lead to its decline, not any strength.

Re:The Queen's Coup by sofixa on Friday November 11, 2022 @04:39AM (#33558755)
> In Italy and Greece Governments have been effectively overthrown by the EU (or ECB/IMF) in fairly open ways with technocrats put in charge.

How, exactly? I don't recall the EU appointing technocratic governments there, i recall elections and the Greek and Italian people making a choice. Choice in specific circumstances that probably influenced them, but same as any election during a crisis.

Re:The Queen's Coup by znpy on Friday November 11, 2022 @04:53AM (#33558822)
Can you please help me remember exactly when the Italians voted in elections for Mario Monti as prime minister? I just can't recall that!
Re:The Queen's Coup by sofixa on Friday November 11, 2022 @06:59AM (#33559660)
You probably know this, but Italians don't vote for a PM directly, they vote for parliament and president. Monti was invited by the elected president to form a government, and confirmed by the elected parliament, after the previous PM resigned.
Re:The Queen's Coup by DocTomoe on Friday November 11, 2022 @12:09PM (#33563458)
In most European countries - and so in Italy, you don't vote for a person, you vote for a party. This is usually a good idea, but can lead to unintended side-effects (See: United Kingdom).

Monti was supported by both democratically-elected Houses of Parliament, otherwise Napolitano would not have given him the task of creating a government.

Re:The Queen's Coup by sofixa on Friday November 11, 2022 @01:09PM (#33564410)
> This is usually a good idea, but can lead to unintended side-effects (See: United Kingdom).

In the UK you very much vote for a person, using the arcane first past the post system. People usually vote based on party allegiance, but at the circonscription level you cast a vote for the one winner, resulting in massive disenfranchisement.

Re:The Queen's Coup by iudqnolq on Friday November 11, 2022 @03:36PM (#33566440)
> In the UK you very much vote for a person

We're talking about the PM here. You vote for a person who then votes on the PM, so it's an indirect system.

> using the arcane first past the post system.

FPTP sucks, but I've never heard it called arcane before. It's arguably the default normal way to vote for anything.

Re:The Queen's Coup by lb1lf on Friday November 11, 2022 @04:07AM (#33558591)
-Obviously, public opinion differs in different monarchies, but living in one constitutional monarchy - Norway - I feel that precisely as the monarchy is gutted of real power, its resilience is strengthened.

One could quip that we need someone to inaugurate new infrastructure works, provide soothing, apolitical speeches in time of need and serve as an unelected symbol of our country - the 'unelected' bit being important, as otherwise we'd just end up with some has-been politician put out to pasture, someone probably the majority of the population had never voted for and don't see as 'their' head of state.

Now, on principle, the monarchy is laughable, anachronistic and undemocratic - but donning my pragmatist glasses, I see it as probably the best way to ensure we have a (symbolic) head of state for performing just those duties where you need someone not overtly political. As long as the royals feel like doing the job, I say let them.

Re:The Queen's Coup by marcus_holmes on Friday November 11, 2022 @04:42AM (#33558774)
As a dual-national UK/Australian, I can say it's a little more complex for us.

In the UK, the monarchy fits pretty well with the other European constitutional monarchies, and there are reasons to support it as you say. I still think hard questions need to be asked about the exact nature of the monarchy, but it's clearly an English/Scottish/Welsh institution that belongs here.

In Australia, it's a remnant of colonialism, a foreign invader that destroyed one of the oldest, if not the oldest, civilisations on the planet. If we're ever going to get over this, then we need to remove these remnants. Having a British constitutional monarchy in modern Australia is a ridiculous anachronism. The "advantages" could clearly be replicated without the historical baggage. We need to be a republic.

Re:The Queen's Coup by mst on Friday November 11, 2022 @04:57AM (#33558842)
I think having a nominal monarch for people to form parasocial relationships with rather than getting overly attached to any given politician has its advantages.

But (note, UK person here, add salt accordingly) it seems like you could retain that part while also stripping any actual power - i.e. 'power-wise practically a republic, emphasis on the -nominal- in my first sentence.'

Re:The Queen's Coup by marcus_holmes on Friday November 11, 2022 @07:31AM (#33560006)
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how Australia works this one out. I think becoming a republic is a matter of when not if, and there's a ton of ideas around about what to do about a head of state. We're not averse to trying out new ideas if they seem good - the Aussie voting system is about as close to perfect as you can get (but our politicians not so much).
Re:The Queen's Coup by mst on Friday November 11, 2022 @07:47AM (#33560150)
Having an 'above the fray' (or at least apparently so) head of state -somehow- is pretty much the thing I'm endorsing here.

Implementation details thereof I don't have a strong opinion on except perhaps "if I ever do develop such an opinion you should probably ignore it anyway."

Re:The Queen's Coup by mikelward on Friday November 11, 2022 @09:34AM (#33561259)
I used to think that Australian preferential voting was the best practical method. Though the Ranked Choice Voting debate in the US has taught me that STAR voting and approval voting are both easier to count and avoid some edge cases.
Re:The Queen's Coup by marcus_holmes on Wednesday November 16, 2022 @09:25AM (#33623449)
I think the Aussie system is flawed because of the party preferences thing - but that's more because the average voter just wants to tick a box for their party and be done with it. I'm not sure that the perfect system would actually be practical.

I always vote "below the line" - it's more fun trying to rank all those micro-parties in order of how much I agree with them :)

It's still miles better than the UK's system

Re:The Queen's Coup by Ebree on Tuesday November 15, 2022 @02:48PM (#33614062)
It's a country of those colonising this minicontinent. For them standing on position of the colonised scarce locals is laughable. Australian population is British. The same way as imported puritans, english elitists or the so called "white trashes" all are postBritish and can't represent Indians. And what kind of ancient Australian civilization you talk about? I never heard about anything useful for humanity invented by them. Anachronism is to be driven by "savage purity" myth while degrading achievements if own actual civilization (not forgetting it's side effects but being objective comparing it to other options - compare to old style Dutch plundering and British become suddenly a true blessing not a curse)

If Malayans wouldn't be so iddle Australia would be like Indonesia or rather Madagascar now and nobody would ever hear about any other natives there, like we don't hear about modern Ainu. Oldest doesn't mean better nor in any way more civilized. Australians could spend more time defending their guaranteed basic civil rights that become only theoretical in time of barbarian madness of sanitarism*. If they feel bad for aboriginal folk they can carve them big piece of Austrialia back and we will see how civilized they are at giverning themselves. But we all know Australia is equally imperial, predatory & hypocritical state as old Britain after what happened to Timor. So it won't ever happen.

Re:The Queen's Coup by denton-scratch on Friday November 11, 2022 @08:52AM (#33560797)
> In both countries support for the EU is running at very high levels despite that.

Both countries are beneficiaries of EU munificence. I wonder whether that has anything to do with it?