News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by Qtips87 on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:18PM (#33512611)
India's so-called democracy has little resemblance to what the people in the West think of as democracy. In India people who vote are the lower caste and the untouchables, the most disenfranchised and marginalized communities. The reason they voted is because of some immediate benefits, like a free meal for example. The people who don't vote are the caste Hindus, mostly upper caste and they have complete and total control of the country continuously since its creation some seventy years ago. The Congress and the BJP are upper caste parties. Just because every five years people can throw a piece of paper into a tattered ballet box does not a democracy made. India is actually a very authoritarian and controlling country despite its pretense.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by yutijke on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:41PM (#33512921)
Is this your lived experience? I am finding it hard to believe when the Prime Minister of India comes under what is classified as a "Backward" caste there. The President of India, Droupadi Murmu comes from a historically disadvantaged tribal background.

The politicians and political commentariat in India heavily emphasize Caste and other identitarian aspects as the building blocks of building a coalition rather than policy.

Political parties field candidates who belong to a particular ethnic community and pander to their sentiments to secure their votes. And the historically disadvantaged communities achieve representation in this manner.

While I agree that Caste is a major issue in the Indian society (with a lot of variance between regions and across social various strata), saying that "backward" castes are denied political representation and agency is extremely dishonest.

Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by Qtips87 on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:54PM (#33513090)
India's political system has all the forms but none of the substance of a democracy. Yes Modi is from a backward caste but his policies are biased towards the upper caste and he is beholden to the upper caste support. The proof in the pudding is how well off the lower caste compared to the upper caste in the last seventy year. And the answer is the lower caste is worst off compared to their upper caste counterpart after seventy years of upper caste rule.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by yutijke on Monday November 07, 2022 @06:00PM (#33513755)
Disadvantaged communities seem to be improving their status as far as I can see. https://theprint.in/opinion/education-levels-of-sc-st-obc-ri...

That BJP only works for the upper caste is inaccurate. Like every political party in India they pander to communities for votes. Freebies and subsidies for disadvantaged groups like ration and gas is a card they have played in sufficient numbers. Recently they have increased reservations (affirmative action) for Scheduled Castes in Karnataka, I believe. This and their rhetoric are pretty much the building blocks of their campaigns.

You can say it doesn't work in the long term, but only working for upper castes is not what it is.

Our political system enables people of various backgrounds to rise in the ranks of politics regardless of their caste (I have given examples up the thread) or religion (we've had Presidents, Chief Ministers, Governors and Prime Ministers from Hindu, Christian, Sikh or Muslim backgrounds).

The medicine is working. If you are frustrated that it is not working fast enough or the way you expected it to, the reason is far simpler and what every Indian knows about.

When you have many "Backward" caste politicians and leaders with a predominantly "Backward" caste voting base who do not work to improve the status of their communities and instead just want to line their pockets, it should be obvious what the problem is. Rich people ultimately just want to make themselves richer, especially in a system that enables it with rampant corruption. That the Rich person is from a disadvantaged background does not matter. Whatever you may want to call it you cannot explain this away as Upper Caste Hegemony.

Note: I am _not_ saying that casteism, doesn't play a role in Indian society and politics, but it is not one and only explanation for our problems. Repeating this again due to the tendency of many people to explain away every problem in the Indian society with "Is this Casteism?",

Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by ginger2016 on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:21PM (#33512651)
This opinion is offensive. India is a functioning democracy. Your claim is that the people who vote are lower caste and upper caste won’t vote hence democracy is invalid. Are you suggesting democracy is only valid if upper caste people vote?
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by Qtips87 on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:33PM (#33512816)
What I am saying is that upper caste don't need to vote because they have complete control of the country. Democracy confers power to the people because you would assume people who vote can affect policies to their favor but this is not the case for the people who vote in India. They are totally disenfranchised and marginalized.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by eldaisfish on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:37PM (#33512878)
the accurate statement is that a small slice of India’s upper castes have control. They dominate many sectors but you seem to assume that caste and economic class are interchangeable. they are not although there is a strong correlation due to generational wealth.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by kodyo on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:31PM (#33512798)
He seems to be suggesting that upper caste people don't need or care about democracy, which is true of all democracies.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by soared on Monday November 07, 2022 @05:43PM (#33513599)
He’s claiming the votes are valid, but the votes do not translate to outcomes like they do in a democracy like the US because governmental power is still controlled by upper castes.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by eldaisfish on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:32PM (#33512814)
While the first sentence is correct, the rest is just nonsense based on misinterpretations. What evidence do you have that voting is largely lower caste?

If anything, the voting system in India is among the best, most transparent and most accessible in the world and that is really something amazing.

Beyond voting, India is largely an electoral autocracy and their idea of “democracy” is really stretching the definition so you are accurate there.

Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by jp42 on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:43PM (#33512961)
Current Prime Minister of India is from 'Other Backward Class' and and President is women from tribal community.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by db1234 on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:46PM (#33513005)
More than 50% of Indian MPs are lower caste and minorities https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/only-39-mps-are-politi... Indian PM and president are from backward caste. Reservation for lower caste in government educational institutes and jobs is more than 50% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India#States. So much for upper caste having complete control of democracy and lower caste being "the most disenfranchised and marginalized communities". I'm not saying all problems are solved. It's a work in progress like any other democracy but progress is being made slowly and steadily.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by arcen on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:50PM (#33513051)
This literally reads like some misinformation campaign hit-piece. I would suggest reading up on actual news sources that function within India and speaking to Indians who live in India.
Re:India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN by hn_throwaway_99 on Monday November 07, 2022 @04:51PM (#33513056)
Can you explain this dichotomy then? You say people who vote are lower caste, and those who "don't vote" are upper caste, yet the upper castes control the government.

Are you saying then that the voting is fraudulent? Or that lower caste voters are voting against their interests? Or that there are restrictions on the candidates that are available so voters are only given the illusion of choice? E.g. for lunch we can choose between KFC, Taco Bell or Pizza Hut, but they're all actually the same company.