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Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by dmix on Saturday November 05, 2022 @04:53AM (#33479369)
Just curious, have you spent time looking at the type of comments getting removed?

Have you looked at any of the top threads on Reveddit/Unddit with 75% of the comments gone?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how it goes way, way beyond those rules you just listed, into something that can only be described as a petty dictatorship - but with any hundred angry nerds who happened to show up playing the dictator.

Zero transparency, zero due process, no one cares.

This sort of excuse (blindly believing all that matters is "just don't be an asshole on the internet and you have nothing to worry about", "just follow the rules on the sidebar") is exactly how this sort of thing happens and no one bothers to look into it. If Reddit had a button to list the comments arbitrarily removed (like Google shows DMCA request removals) you can be sure the outrage would be 100x and those sidebar rules would seem meaningless besides maybe 20% of the time.

I chose r/science because that's a topic that typically prides itself on caring about finding the truth, not about satisfying the ideological whims of the gatekeepers.

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by mariusor on Saturday November 05, 2022 @04:57AM (#33479402)
You call it petty dictatorship, I call it the best moderated subreddit of the whole platform.
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by dmix on Saturday November 05, 2022 @05:16AM (#33479524)
You just happen to be lucky enough to be within the very narrow overton window. Or at least a) believe what's being curated for you and b) never cared to look at what's not being said.

You should hope that your views (or more accurately, their views) never stray from it and the information that a tiny group of people are controlling is good for the entire population.

You could say just use another subreddit. But this isn't limited to one.

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by Teever on Saturday November 05, 2022 @05:23AM (#33479573)
Is the window really that narrow, or do you just happen to fall outside it/identify as having fallen outside of it for personal identity reasons?
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by rhaksw on Saturday November 05, 2022 @09:05AM (#33481028)
It's narrower than you might think. For example, I've recently been paying attention to the trans issue because some are saying that pro-trans groups are equating words with violence [1] [2]. Apparently the pro-trans groups have been saying that only 1% detransition, but there are youth speaking out saying that number is likely far greater [3] [4] [5].

It's hard for me to believe these are made up stories. And, it appears that such stories are currently only being told via conservative media. Please correct me if I am wrong.

This is of interest to me because the US holds that words are not equal to violence, with the only exception being the emergency principle. According to Nadine Strossen, President of the ACLU from 1991-2008, the emergency test says speech may be punishable "if, in context, it directly causes specific imminent serious harm." [6] If groups are successfully convincing people otherwise, then it may mean we are forgetting what free speech is. Free speech, the US version anyway, draws the line at violence, not words.

[1] https://archive.ph/1NeiV#selection-1513.7-1513.57

[2] https://corinnacohn.substack.com/p/the-world-should-not-need...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tQr6WZXHSQ

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdSKBVHrizo

[5] https://youtu.be/STE1pmCjULQ?t=2047

[6] https://books.google.com/books?&hl=en&id=whBQDwAAQBAJ&q=in+c...

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by hhmc on Saturday November 05, 2022 @09:39AM (#33481361)
That's a _VERY_ selective set of sources ([3][4][5]), which you are in bad faith using a representation of the "youth"
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by rhaksw on Saturday November 05, 2022 @11:34AM (#33482446)
"There are youth speaking out" should not be taken to mean "all youth". It means "some youth".

It's another point of view on an issue that I'd only previously seen presented from one perspective. That's why I found it to be so interesting. I was shocked to hear it because I had no prior understanding that anything untoward was going on. Question for you, what do you think about Keira Bell's story?

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by hhmc on Saturday November 05, 2022 @12:54PM (#33483215)
Views are a currency, and not one I wish to give to GBnews.
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by rhaksw on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:49PM (#33483780)
I'm sure you can find her story elsewhere.
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by dmix on Sunday November 06, 2022 @01:55PM (#33495825)
'Bad faith' is the modern authoritarian's favourite excuse for censorship or dismissing comments. Just like 'problematic' it's a vague enough term that it can be easily abused ('dog whistle' and 'gaslighting' are other favourites). You don't have to openly challenge the source material, just question the motives for even asking the question.

Perfect for when you don't have the balls to directly call what the person is saying wrong or bad. Ad hominem 101.

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by hhmc on Wednesday November 09, 2022 @04:10AM (#33528995)
I hope the irony of your comment isn’t lost on you
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by adbachman on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:50AM (#33482000)
It took a long time for you to get around to it, but was the reason your comments keep getting moderated because you show up in every gender / transgender thread dropping links and "just asking questions"?

More important than the content of speech in social media moderation is the behavior. You demonstrate bad behavior here.

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by rhaksw on Saturday November 05, 2022 @11:31AM (#33482407)
> It took a long time for you to get around to it, but was the reason your comments keep getting moderated because you show up in every gender / transgender thread dropping links and "just asking questions"?

No, this is only the second time I've discussed the gender/trans issue. My comments generally get moderated for containing links to Reveddit.

> More important than the content of speech in social media moderation is the behavior. You demonstrate bad behavior here.

What is the bad behavior to which you are referring?

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by Firmwarrior on Saturday November 05, 2022 @09:43AM (#33481399)
To be fair, tolerating transgender people's existence at all used to fall outside the Overton window. Having a small cabal of unimpeachable shadow lords ruling all discourse with an iron fist doesn't seem healthy for society to me.

Particularly when there's some circumstantial evidence that Ghislaine Maxwell used to be one of those mods: https://old.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/comments/rrldd9/to... (skeptical link, but even here you can see that it's plausible)

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by mariusor on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:53AM (#33482033)
I find it a little sad that in order to disagree with me you have to be mean about it.

There are plenty of reasons why a subreddit like r/science is fine for people, not just the fact that they have a "very narrow Overton window". Maybe it's because we understand that this particular subreddit does not conform to the usual agora of discussion that reddit is known for and just shows a list of maybe interesting science papers/articles and clarifications on them from people in the domain. I may disagree with some of the ideas put forward but I can be an adult about it and not jump to the conclusion that there's a cabal of "big science" that is trying to brainwash me.

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by rhaksw on Saturday November 05, 2022 @11:26AM (#33482361)
> I find it a little sad that in order to disagree with me you have to be mean about it.

I didn't find what was written to be mean. Eleanor Roosevelt said,

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

If you feel sad, that's fine, I just want to point out that this is a choice we all make. Sometimes there is wide agreement on what constitutes offense, and we use this to justify the secret removal of other people's content. But offense is inherently subjective, and such secretive removals rob us of chances to sharpen our counter speech. Rather than trying to make perceived hateful conversations secretly disappear, I think we are better off allowing each other to prepare counter arguments to offensive speech.

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by dmix on Sunday November 06, 2022 @01:59PM (#33495862)
Being mean? Jeez, I was hardly being mean. Being easily offended and being pro-censorship are two intersecting circles on the venn diagram.
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by GameOfFrowns on Saturday November 05, 2022 @07:13AM (#33480336)
Until the day you fail the purity test and have your IP and all accounts permabanned due to a disagreement with a mod in disguise.
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by pontsun on Saturday November 05, 2022 @07:24AM (#33480413)
Luckily, moderators can't IP ban anyone. :)
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by GameOfFrowns on Saturday November 05, 2022 @07:35AM (#33480480)
They just use the internal tools and create a ticket to have an admin ban your IP and all current and future accounts. Wow, such a hurdle!

Even more awesome to have this happen with a dormitory IP. /s

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by bakugo on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:41AM (#33481912)
Yes, they can. If you piss off a moderator they'll just ask an admin to ban you, assuming it's not an admin's alt in the first place (admins have sockpuppet mod accounts on every major sub)
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by mariusor on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:43AM (#33481935)
There's no purity test in the subreddit except being an acknowledged scientist in the domain the submission is about. Forgive me the snark, but it's like you don't even know what we're talking about.
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by laputan_machine on Saturday November 05, 2022 @07:56AM (#33480619)
Wait until your view becomes the one attacked. Regardless of scientific merit.
Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by mariusor on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:40AM (#33481909)
I think you and the other posters decrying my "oh so narrow" point of view forget that the subreddit is nothing more than a place to see interesting news about science and the clarifications that people in science can bring on those news.

What it is not is a place where laymen like me and (probably you) can debate the veracity of said science. I don't give a toss about which science articles are posted there and if they agree with my world view as long as the curation and moderation is consistent with the principles described in the subreddit's rules. In my opinion is fine to not have an opinion or comment even if someone on the internet is wrong - present time excluded. :P

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by rhaksw on Saturday November 05, 2022 @11:42AM (#33482538)
Check out this talk from Jonathan Rauch [1]. He goes through how both the left and right censor, and how that ends up being good for nobody, even if it starts out happening only in the private sector.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0T9XSG73kY&t=1774s

Re:Show HN: Reveddit.com: Improving online discourse with tr... by leetnewb on Saturday November 05, 2022 @06:15AM (#33479920)
I actually think the quality of the comment section in /r/science has gotten worse over the years because moderation is too slow or lenient. I assume that has more to do with the volume of work than intent of the moderation team themselves.