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Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by kibwen on Friday November 04, 2022 @06:32PM (#33474876)
All of these are indeed important, and will eventually (one hopes) result in the student realizing that linked lists are to be avoided because of their poor mechanical sympathy resulting from their awful cache locality.

Valid uses for a linked list are extremely niche. Yes, you can name some, and I can name several valid uses for bloom filters.

Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by throwawaymaths on Friday November 04, 2022 @06:49PM (#33475083)
Wait why do linked lists have bad cache locality? It depends on how your heap is set up. For example, you could have an allocator that gives relatively good locality by having high granularity and only bailing out if say your LL gets super long (so if your lists are usually short, they could have awesome locality)
Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by duskwuff on Friday November 04, 2022 @07:11PM (#33475370)
That only works if you allocate lists all at once and never modify them.

If there are any other allocations taking place at the same time -- say, allocations from other threads, or for other data you had to create while building the list, that locality is shot. Same goes if you insert more elements to the list later, or if you perform an operation which changes its order (like sorting it).

Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by wtetzner on Saturday November 05, 2022 @12:23AM (#33477945)
> That only works if you allocate lists all at once and never modify them.

You can reorder and modify the contents of the list without losing locality.

Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by duskwuff on Saturday November 05, 2022 @01:09AM (#33478168)
I mean, if you modify the contents of the list nodes in place, sure. But at that point, you're just doing an array with extra steps.

Changing any of the pointers, however, will make memory prefetch much less efficient. CPUs like linear memory access patterns; they're easy to predict. Chasing pointers is much less predictable, even if the pointers are all to the same region of memory.

Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by wtetzner on Saturday November 05, 2022 @09:39AM (#33481359)
It might still be cheaper than copying the values if they’re large.
Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by cerved on Friday November 04, 2022 @07:24PM (#33475534)
That doesn't seem to make much sense to me. LL are useful in cases where you deal with changing lists, where you'd be forced to allocate and deallocate memory often. If you know before hand the exact or approximate size of the list and it's contents you can store that continuously in memory with greater cache locality because you're not storing pointers in addition to data. Seems to me the use case of LL is perhaps as ill suited for cache locality as the structure itself
Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by wtetzner on Saturday November 05, 2022 @12:24AM (#33477948)
They’re also useful when you want to cheaply reorder nodes without copying the elements.
Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by cerved on Saturday November 05, 2022 @06:45PM (#33486731)
True. You could implement that using an array of structs where each struct contains indexes of the array to link other structures. instead of memory pointers, since they are 8 bytes in 64-bit applications. This way you get the nice properties of both linked lists and continuously allocated arrays
Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by AstralStorm on Friday November 04, 2022 @07:11PM (#33475367)
If you are in that place, you're probably using a linked list over small statically allocated memory, but you still need random ordering and fast remove or reorder.
Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by CalChris on Saturday November 05, 2022 @12:08AM (#33477848)
If your list is short then you won't have a problem. But if your list is long then traversing it can be a major problem.

For example, if your list item is page aligned like the task_struct in the Linux kernel, rescheduling the next process could traverse the process list. The process list links will be at the same page offset and associate with a restricted set of the L1/L2/L3 caches lines and thrash from memory. Worse, the TLB will thrash as well. This was actually the case for Linux until about 2000.

https://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedin...

Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by mst on Friday November 04, 2022 @07:14PM (#33475398)
Re:In Defense of Linked Lists by atemerev on Saturday November 05, 2022 @07:45AM (#33480548)
An order book in electronic trading.

It is not too large (a few thousand of entries usually), but it needs to be accessed and modified extremely fast. There can be insertions and deletions anywhere, but it is strongly biased towards front. It is ordered by price, either ascending or descending.

Various “ordered queue” implementations are usually a poor fit, as there are many insertions and deletions in the middle, and they need to avoid any additional latency. The same goes to vectors. Red-black trees etc. are too complex (and slow) for such a small size.

So we start with a humble linked list, and optimize it (unrolled, skip search etc). But we respect linked lists, they work.