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Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by mschuster91 on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:31PM (#33469446)
And now these restaurants, theme parks, movie theatres, literally everyone with a low-skill, low-margin business are all finding out that maybe a society shouldn't use "productivity" to judge the worth of people.
Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by WalterBright on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:34PM (#33469504)
This is another formulation of the Labor Theory of Value, which has been discredited time and again. Societies based on the LToV have not done well.
Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by mschuster91 on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:36PM (#33469533)
> Societies based on the LToV have not done well.

As the countless number of stores closed entirely or with massively reduced opening hours shows, societies that over-pay for bullshit jobs (=investment bankers, C-level executives, ...) and under-pay workers who do actual work in gruesome conditions don't do well either once workers realize the power is with them.

Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by recursivedoubts on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:49PM (#33469790)
The Labor Theory of Value is true: value is created when human labor is applied to raw materials. Just because the Marxists adopted the idea doesn't make it wrong. They were wrong about other things.

Adam Smith and David Ricardo both believed in the labor theory of value.

Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by MichaelCollins on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:54PM (#33469906)
> The Labor Theory of Value is true: value is created when human labor is applied to raw materials.

Wrong, value is created subjectively, by other people desiring the products of that labor. If nobody wants what the laborers created, then their labor had no value.

Roll a rock up and down a hill all day. You'll work hard as hell but you'll create no value. Anybody who denies the subjective theory of value is out to lunch.

Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by recursivedoubts on Friday November 04, 2022 @01:14PM (#33470266)
I agree that value is subjective, but value is still created by labor.

Sit and stare at a rock and you have created no new value.

Labor can also destroy value, for example when a building is destroyed in a riot, or when a rock is pushed up a hill to a location that makes it less valuable.

Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by MichaelCollins on Friday November 04, 2022 @06:23PM (#33474746)
Trip over a sufficiently shiny rock and you'll discover that it has value (to some people) even though you put no labor into it.
Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by recursivedoubts on Saturday November 05, 2022 @10:20AM (#33481717)
yes, a very small amount of readily available (labor free) raw material has value to some people

but most raw material requires applied labor to become valuable: at the very least transportation to them

Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by WalterBright on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:56PM (#33469960)
> Adam Smith and David Ricardo both believed in the labor theory of value.

Everybody makes misteaks.

Re:Productivity has fallen, and experts are puzzled. I’m not... by recursivedoubts on Friday November 04, 2022 @01:15PM (#33470272)
Not me!