News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by PM_me_your_math on Friday November 04, 2022 @10:31AM (#33467328)
Twitter employees were treated nicely. Too nicely. And yet they were not productive. The only new features they introduced in 10 years were losses in excess of 200MM to 1bn+ and the banning/shadow banning of those who went against the group think, fun police, and thought-gestapo. Each staffer had 10 bosses and every department had a ton of waste.

Musk could never show up again after some changes, and the company would perform better than under the previous leadership.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by EMM_386 on Friday November 04, 2022 @10:45AM (#33467567)
It is incredible to look at these companies and see the staggering amount of losses and costs they have, plus the headcount.

There could be entire departments dedicated to figuring out whether or not the "like" and "retweet" buttons should have rounded corners or not, that sort of thing.

At some point, reality has to hit and apparently, Musk is the one who's going to bring it.

Is it being done in a shocking way to those who haven't been through this with other companies? Maybe. But how else is this company going to actually ever become profitable?

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by BananaPelican on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:26AM (#33468296)
Do you work at Twitter? My wife did until today, though not in the department of “rounded corners on retweet buttons”.

It sounds to me like you’re repeating talking points and memes, but speaking from a position of ignorance.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by conaclos on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:17AM (#33468147)
With this kind of mass and rapid layoffs, I will expect more losses in medium and long term since you destroy a working system. A lot of failures will emerge because no one is left for monitoring or fixing some issues.
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by PM_me_your_math on Saturday November 05, 2022 @09:38AM (#33481352)
Destroying a work system that loses 1100Mm a year is not a strategic loss. It is a gain in the direction you want to take the company (gain instead of loss)
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by watwut on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:11AM (#33468036)
Musk paid huge money to get that thing. He paid multiple times the estimated price. The company is now in deep deep debt that was not nearly as large before - because company now owns the money Musk did not had.

He is not hand of the market. He is someone who made pretty bad business and has very little chance to fix.

And yes, there is likely someone doing UI decisions. Usually it is good idea to have special people good with visuals to make these artistic decisions.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by EMM_386 on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:32AM (#33468398)
> Usually it is good idea to have special people good with visuals to make these artistic decisions.

The question is, how many people?

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by watwut on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:46PM (#33469719)
Neither I nor person I responded to knows. However, person I responded to took issue with mere existence of such position.

I know that that comment was just pure emotion and hate. But, the fact is, there is nothing wrong with having department for visuals. Or department for marketing or department for communication with advertisers or what have you.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by contravariant on Friday November 04, 2022 @10:46AM (#33467606)
Valid or not you do hit upon something I'm genuinely curious about. What do developers for something like twitter even do?

Twitter does one very specific thing, and it doesn't look like it has changed its goal much over the past 10 years, so what is it they're trying to develop so rapidly they need hundreds (thousands?) of developers.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by fendy3002 on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:07AM (#33467974)
My guess is for back-office or moderation-related told, as well as algorithm fine tuning.

Though I think the number of developers are still too high.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by globalise83 on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:09AM (#33468006)
The legacy border-radius assumptions regarding the "Set Up Profile" button may be no longer valid and need to be deeply investigated. We are therefore setting up a cross-functional taskforce to tackle this issue. MVP is due one year from now.
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by rtatay on Friday November 04, 2022 @10:50AM (#33467672)
I have this same question!
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by meken on Friday November 04, 2022 @12:52PM (#33469855)
Not a direct answer to your question, but it reminds me of the first chapter from The Mythical Man Month

> One occasionally reads newspaper accounts of how two programmers in a remodeled garage have built an important program that surpasses the best efforts of large teams. And every programmer is prepared to believe such tales, for he knows that he could build any program much faster than the 1000 statements/year reported for industrial teams. Why then have not all industrial programming teams been replaced by dedicated garage duos? One must look at what is being produced. In the [attached figure] is a program. It is complete in itself, ready to be run by the author on the system on which it was developed. That is the thing commonly produced in garages…

He then goes on to describe how you can take a program and make it a programming product (by generalizing it, adding testing, documentation, maintenence) and a programming system (requiring interfaces and integration with the rest of the system)

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by thedorkknight on Friday November 04, 2022 @10:58AM (#33467819)
>banning/shadow banning of those who went against the group think, fun police, and thought-gestapo.

Why would they agree to a ToS that clearly lays out things like "don't intentionally misgender people" if they fully planned on breaking their agreement

"But no one reads the ToS!" sure, but when you have your account suspended until you agree to delete a specific tweet and are given the exact area in the ToS you agreed to that you violated, then you should revoke your agreement to the ToS

When it's brought to your attention that you signed a document agreeing to Twitter being the thought Gestapo, just... cancel your agreement. Don't continue to agree to it in writing while whining about it publicly.

I agree with the rest of your comment though

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by branon on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:28AM (#33468323)
Some see it as their duty to fight back against unjust laws/rules. You and I might do it by breaking terms of service, Musk does it by purchasing the platform and adjusting the terms. Two sides of the same coin really, only difference being which end the agency is coming from.
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by thedorkknight on Friday November 04, 2022 @01:12PM (#33470226)
That's like agreeing to take your shoes off when entering a building, leaving your shoes on, and then complaining when the employees/owner/whatever asks you to leave if you're not going to take them off. If you think a rule is stupid, then rebel against it by not agreeing to it
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by yanderekko on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:01AM (#33467871)
>Why would they agree to a ToS that clearly lays out things like "don't intentionally misgender people"

Where in the ToS is this explicitly stated, and when was it added there?

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by lemmsjid on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:31AM (#33468386)
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by a_shovel on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:14AM (#33468104)
Don't know about the TOS, but there's been an option for reporting misgendering in the report menu for a while now. Maybe a year-ish?
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by cma on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:43AM (#33468559)
The ToS says:

> We reserve the right to remove Content that violates the User Agreement, including for example, copyright or trademark violations or other intellectual property misappropriation, impersonation, unlawful conduct, or harassment. Information regarding specific policies and the process for reporting or appealing violations can be found in our Help Center (https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/twitter-repor... and https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/suspended-...).

So the ToS refers to the policies in question. The list of things is only "for example," with more in the specific policies you agree to.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by aaronharnly on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:55AM (#33468752)
Let’s see!

The Terms of Service:

https://twitter.com/content/twitter-com/legal/en/tos

states “You may use the Services only in compliance with these Terms and all applicable laws, rules and regulations”, and links to the Twitter Rules and Policies:

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies

Following the link to the “Hateful Conduct Policy”:

https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/hateful-condu...

Which states:

> We prohibit targeting others with repeated slurs, tropes or other content that intends to dehumanize, degrade or reinforce negative or harmful stereotypes about a protected category. This includes targeted misgendering or deadnaming of transgender individuals.

In the Wayback machine, it looks like that direct language was added in an update between October 19 and October 28 of 2018, about four years ago:

https://web.archive.org/web/20181028023901/https://help.twit...

The older version had this, which reasonably encompasses that behavior, though doesn’t name it specifically:

> repeated and/or or non-consensual slurs, epithets, racist and sexist tropes, or other content that degrades someone.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by yanderekko on Friday November 04, 2022 @03:18PM (#33472273)
Thank you, I'm surprised it's explicitly called out but not too surprised.

That said, I have trouble believing that "why would you agree to a ToS that you don't actually intend to ascribe to 100% of the time" is a question that requires serious consideration.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by thedorkknight on Friday November 04, 2022 @05:29PM (#33474054)
The key part is how you react when the ToS gets enforced. Like I said, if your account gets suspended and the specific violation is brought to your attention, then either delete the offending tweet or revoke your agreement.
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by yanderekko on Friday November 04, 2022 @10:29PM (#33477185)
Or just delete and post it again later and hope for a different outcome.
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by mschuster91 on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:11AM (#33468045)
> those who went against the group think, fun police, and thought-gestapo.

Yeah, "fun police" - it's not fun if your "jokes" are made on the back of minorities.

Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by PM_me_your_math on Saturday November 05, 2022 @09:39AM (#33481362)
Care to provide us a list of approved jokes?
Re:Twitter’s mass layoffs have begun by neuronic on Friday November 04, 2022 @11:14AM (#33468097)
> thought-gestapo

As a German, I actually take offense to this kind of expression. You apparently have NO IDEA what Gestapo really was if you think banning gaslighting assholes for hate speech is in any way comparable or even remotely in the same neighborhood as the Gestapo.

These kind of phrases ridicule and downplay the horrific crimes and offenses against human rights committed by that organization and even the most unreasonable and idiotic ban on Twitter cannot ever be compared.

Words matter - and that's why we deal with "free speech" differently than Americans. Btw it's also pretty clear what holds on court and what doesn't - independent of how strict or unreasonable private social networks moderate their content.