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Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by crazygringo on Friday October 21, 2022 @10:16AM (#33288208)
First of all, "biometric data" is a scary-sounding term that sounds like iris or fingerprint scans, when it's just... what people's faces and voices look and sound like. By this measure, my own brain is "collecting biometric data" on thousands of people a day while I walk down the street.

Second, in cases like the Nest camera or Google photos, presumably most of the people it's scanning don't match anything. It sure doesn't feel like a violation of privacy or consent for a computer to say, "I tried, but nope, face/voice not recognized".

Third, everyone being recognized has previously been identified by the user, whether someone tagging their friends in Photos, family members on Nest, or household members for Assistant. If I'm OK with a friend uploading an image of me to their own Google Photos, I don't see why I shouldn't allow them to run a facial detection algorithm to organize all the photos that contain me.

Now if Google were using all of this to build up a database of all the faces in the world matched to identities (as other sketchy companies have already done), then this would all be a problem. But there's zero evidence of anything like that, and that's not what this case is about. This isn't about misusing Street View or anything.

So it's hard to see this as anything but a political stunt? What's Texas's goal here -- to remove the helpful features that alert us when a stranger (as opposed to family member) is at our door, to distinguish voices in Assistant, and find photos of a particular friend in our photo library...? These are all genuinely useful features.

(Ah and I see I've already got a couple of downvotes... but zero comments explaining why.)

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by AnonCoward42 on Friday October 21, 2022 @10:31AM (#33288360)
It is always a matter of scale. You can get the fingerprint of anyone (relatively) easily, but not everyone. So the problem only arises when it is done in mass or more generally when it can be used by centralized entities of any sort.

The wider question is, if this can be avoided at all. But I think we should at least try, because this kind of data can so easily be misused and at one point in time we were already aware of that, but forgot in recent times.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by VWWHFSfQ on Friday October 21, 2022 @10:52AM (#33288602)
People always come in here with the same comment like "my brain memorizes people's faces too! Should that be illegal???"

Your brain isn't memorizing billions of people's faces on the scale that Google is. There's a difference. It's a false equivalency.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by crazygringo on Friday October 21, 2022 @11:30AM (#33289065)
As long as the data Google is collecting is segregated per-user, then no -- it's not any different.

If Google is learning about 10-20 people per account, and that data never gets combined, then what's the problem?

Google also processes billions of people's e-mails. But they're segregated per-account. So there's no problem. What makes someone's face any different from an e-mail they send?

Again, this lawsuit is not about Google aggregating anything. It's entirely about information that users voluntarily choose to supply, that is used for features desired by those users, and that remains segregated per-account.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by jeremyjh on Friday October 21, 2022 @12:13PM (#33289645)
Do you seriously believe that until the end of time no court can sign a warrant demanding Google search it’s database of photos across all accounts?
Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by googlryas on Friday October 21, 2022 @12:01PM (#33289484)
So the argument isn't actually about collecting biometric data, but it is about being really good at collecting biometric data?
Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by nova22033 on Friday October 21, 2022 @02:19PM (#33291296)
Your brain isn't memorizing billions of people's faces on the scale that Google is. There's a difference. It's a false equivalency.

Doing things at scale isn't a crime. Can you point out which law google broke?

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by weberer on Friday October 21, 2022 @02:24PM (#33291356)
>Google had violated a state consumer protection law that requires companies to inform citizens and get their consent before capturing their biometric identifiers, including fingerprints, voiceprints and a “record of hand or face geometry.”

The law in question:

https://archive.ph/w9gtb

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by shadowgovt on Friday October 21, 2022 @04:25PM (#33292650)
It's going to be an interesting case because it can easily be argued that Google captured nothing; they ran post-capture analysis on data captured by individuals for private use.

Whether that's relevant to the law is what the courts will have to decide.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by monksy on Friday October 21, 2022 @03:14PM (#33291952)
It's also not cooridnating, indexing it, compairing it to others, selling that data, passing it on for blackmail purposes, or law enforcement purposes, etc. Additionally to reproduce the person's overall biometerics it is a very sloppy process and would be unreliable.
Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by dkarl on Friday October 21, 2022 @10:53AM (#33288611)
> sounds like iris or fingerprint scans, when it's just... what people's faces and voices look and sound like

It's important to point out the important difference, which is that fingerprints are considered uniquely identifying for practical purposes, and are commonly used to identify individuals by automated security mechanisms and by law enforcement, whereas faces are considered uniquely identifying for practical purposes, and are commonly used to identify individuals by automated security mechanisms and by law enforcement.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by bbojan on Friday October 21, 2022 @11:08AM (#33288797)
I see what you did there.
Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by residentcoder on Friday October 21, 2022 @10:55AM (#33288641)
From the article:

>Mr. Paxton said in a statement. “I will continue to fight Big Tech to ensure the privacy and security of all Texans.”

It's obvious pandering to the masses. This is about Mr.Paxton trying to get some attention.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by bedast on Friday October 21, 2022 @12:16PM (#33289687)
He's on the ballot next month. So of course he is.

Not a fan of mass surveillance, but my gut says this is the wrong person to fight this fight. His motives are questionable, and it shows in specifically targeting private business and not working to "ensure the privacy and security of all Texans" from government and law enforcement.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by cvwright on Friday October 21, 2022 @12:13PM (#33289640)
Big Tech keeps winning because we all hate our political opponents more than we hate the abuse of our privacy.
Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by manuelabeledo on Friday October 21, 2022 @03:29PM (#33292097)
Also because people like Paxton aren't really doing their jobs.

He targeted Google, when Amazon, Facebook, etc. are doing the same. Also, less known companies like Palantir, roam free, just because they don't have the political baggage like Google do.

Worst of all, Paxton doesn't seem to have any issues with police departments having access to Nest or Ring accounts.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by Bhilai on Friday October 21, 2022 @11:41AM (#33289204)
Yep, this sounds like Ken Paxton trying to get some limelight a week before early voting begins in Texas. Its supposed to be a close election for Paxton who has basically abused his office in all sorts of ethical violations[1] He also been under indictment for securities fraud[2] and recently decided to literally run and drive away in his car to avoid being served[3].

This is Paxton's incompetence for those unaware:

> Six of the people indicted last year on allegations that they were involved in a scheme to force teenage girls to “exchange sexual contact for crystal methamphetamine” are now free.

[1] https://apnews.com/article/elections-texas-presidential-elec...

[2] https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/15/ken-paxton-securitie...

[3]https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/26/texas-attorney-gener...

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by advisedwang on Friday October 21, 2022 @11:42AM (#33289215)
Google Photos recognizes EVERY face even if you don't tag someone. It can show you a big array of every person in every photo you've ever taken. Tagging just puts a name underneath the picture and allows you to search them by name.

https://support.google.com/photos/answer/6128838

My google photos has a "photo group" for every person I studied in college with (from a series of photos I took at a dinner with everyone present). It even has barack obama, which it recognized off a shirt a friend was wearing. I tagged none of these poeple.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by cromwellian on Friday October 21, 2022 @01:32PM (#33290730)
So it’s a clustering algorithm that just clusters photos with like features together.

Let’s say it was done without any kind of special face recognition but was done purely by some funky nearest neighbor algorithm in high dimensional space. Would you still object?

The end result is the same, grouping things by commonality on different axes, one of them being faces. If the underlying algorithm didn’t even know what faces were, would it may a difference?

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by amf12 on Friday October 21, 2022 @02:33PM (#33291457)
> Google Photos recognizes EVERY face

No. It does not "recognize" a face. If you take a few pictures of another Google user, it won't say - "Hey, here are all the pics of John". It will just allow you to lookup all pictures that match a face. Its clustering and not recognition.

Re:Texas Sues Google for Collecting Biometric Data Without C... by nova22033 on Friday October 21, 2022 @02:18PM (#33291283)
The texas AG is under indictment for security fraud. This is red meat to trumpers who feel the social media companies are biased against them.