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Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by ch4s3 on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @11:43AM (#33263844)
> it's basically been disproven at this point that simply lowering cost does not necessarily lead to better outcomes for the country

This is a pretty squishy claim, but there's a mountain of work in economics showing that the Jones Act punishes Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and Guam.

> lowering costs by offshoring labor had hollowed out the middle class in America

Again this isn't a settled claim. Automation probably had more to do with the shift in workforce. Moreover all advanced economies have shifted to more service work, without necessarily experiencing some of the same difficulties as the US.

The Jones Act has actually been shown to have made US ship building and ports less competitive by shielding them from competition. US ships and ports are basically 3rd rate at this point.

Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by juve1996 on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @01:26PM (#33265278)
> Again this isn't a settled claim. Automation probably had more to do with the shift in workforce. Moreover all advanced economies have shifted to more service work, without necessarily experiencing some of the same difficulties as the US.

I don't buy it - US manufacturing simply wasn't competitive with overseas prices. If it was just automation, it would still be here - only automated. It's not.

Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by twoodfin on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @01:35PM (#33265369)
On a dollar-of-stuff-produced basis, US manufacturing has continued to grow and remains only a fraction behind China:

https://www.brookings.edu/research/global-manufacturing-scor...

It’s the jobs that went away, not the manufacturing sector or the dollars.

Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by juve1996 on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @02:22PM (#33265999)
From the article: "Manufacturing is enjoying a resurgence in the United States. After years of falling output and a diminishing percentage of the labor force, the last few years have seen renewed growth."

Resurgence implies it was not great for a long time.

Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by twoodfin on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @06:15PM (#33268551)
Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by juve1996 on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @07:10PM (#33268976)
These numbers are more in my favor than yours. It's rapidly shrinking in terms of GDP. Sure, the world economy is growing, thus the rising tide lifts all boats - but compared to competitors, the US is doing quite poorly and losing global share quite rapidly.

If your automation argument was true, this would not have happened - output would have increased exponentially and we wouldn't have lost share. Automation is making it more economical now - but that's a recent development, after the decimation of the American middle class.

Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by twoodfin on Thursday October 20, 2022 @07:30AM (#33273109)
American manufacturing is very much “still here”, not unlike, say, American agriculture, despite also being crowded out of GDP by other growing sectors. So I’m not sure which claim we’re arguing about.
Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by juve1996 on Thursday October 20, 2022 @11:04AM (#33275829)
Still waiting for you to explain global share. Still waiting for you to realize your time scales are 30 years off.

I'll always be waiting. Best of luck!

Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by JAlexoid on Thursday October 20, 2022 @03:01PM (#33279140)
You moved the goalpost here, buddy.

American manufacturing grew in the last 20 years.(and probably before that)

Automation didn't produce the increase in jobs, to match population growth... But a claim that US manufacturing shrunk is false. No one in this thread made a claim, including you, that this is about "global scale". You just threw in this argument to avoid accepting the fact that you're wrong.

Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by 0xBDB on Saturday October 22, 2022 @06:12PM (#33302676)
"If it was just automation, it would still be here - only automated. It's not."

It is though. The U.S. steel industry which everyone thinks is dead, for example, is producing at about 70% of its all-time peak. It's just doing it with 15% or less of the peak workforce. And the current numbers represent about 5% of world steel production - which is consistent with our population, just not with the fact that we once produced the majority of the world's steel.

https://blog.boydmetals.com/the-past-present-and-future-of-t...

Re:It’s Time to Repeal the Jones Act by kilolima on Wednesday October 19, 2022 @01:40PM (#33265448)
Bold claims, bold citations?

The "mountains of work" "proving" that the JA is a negative suffer from a free-market neo-liberal bias.