But as I said, its about choice.

The WFH crowd are unhappy if they don't get a choice in where they work. The WFO crowd are unhappy if others DO get a choice of where they work.

Or to put it another way, one side are unhappy if they're forced to do something they don't want to, the other is unhappy if the first are not forced to do something they don't want to do.

I am starting to believe the wfo crowd are just those envious types of workers that will do anything they can to undermine their colleagues. Even op is taking issue with people’s pay.

That's not the be-all, end-all. A previously WFO-only team must make various adjustments to become a successful hybrid team, so even just one WFH team-member will be unhappy if the entire rest of the team doesn't change their behavior in pertain ways (e.g. renouncing ad-hoc team meetings over coffee, or in-person whiteboarding).

But in liberalism my wish to not be in another individual's company strongly trumps their desire to be in my company

> You can literally flip the O and H and change the “what makes me happy” part to get the opposite side’s point of view.

No. The points of view are not equal and opposite.

Some people who advocate WFO do so because they just want to work in an office (for various reaons) and they don't care how many co-workers do the same. But others want other people to also be present in the office _to create the environment that they desire_. People who advocate WFH have similarly varied motivations, but none of their motivations require other people to change their behaviour.

> People who advocate WFH have similarly varied motivations, but none of their motivations require other people to change their behaviour.

Of course it does. Some people who WFH will want things like no mixed meetings - either everyone is in the same room, or everyone is entering the meeting from their own computer - there's an example in this very thread. And even if you don't go that far, there are various smaller ways everyone must adapt their behavior to properly support hybrid work modes, just like WFO-only or WFH-only.

It just seems like those people should work at different companies. Having a mix of people who prefer WFO and WFH seems like the worst of both worlds. (WFO people don't get the atmosphere that they desire, WFH people are second-class citizens for collaborative activites, WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors, WFH people still need to live a commutable distance from the office).

> WFH seniors have reduced ability to mentor their juniors

Why is that?

I find screen-share mentoring on dev stuff that more fruitful I stuck to that even when forced back into office. Less covid, less other awkward closeness, better for ears and eyes :) (Admitted, only non-computer-work mentoring is different).

Perhaps it is because the mentoring activity has a barrier now. Scheduling a time, putting aside other activities,and even having to say hey guy, can I bother you for a "session".... Well, sometimes all Jr needed was a two minute leg-up, even a 30 second orientation, development of an in-joke, whatever. So he never bothered, and had to spend 45 minutes figuring it out as though he was alone.

> Why is that?

I believe it's because coworkers rarely talk about non work stuff when they are WFH. Maybe it's just my company, but when we were in office I felt everyone on the team had some sort of relationship with each other because we'd eat lunch or talk about sports, or even the weather. Now we pretty much only talk about work stuff, which ends up meaning we silo more and collaborate less.

That's a cultural (your?) problem (as well as the other responses) and not excluded per se by remote. Some people seem to be more shy virtually, for others it is the other way round?

One big category that's missing is the quick, informal after meeting sync. When we were in the office, after big meetings, I would usually chat with my juniors about what happened. What went well and what went poorly, the general theory of how those kinds of meetings work, that kind of thing. That's much harder to do now, so I mostly don't, and as a result our post-Covid newbies are generally worse at running meetings.