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Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by lapcat on Saturday October 15, 2022 @09:34PM (#33220323)
I sometimes argue, because I feel an inner compulsion to do so — maybe as a kind of performance art — but I've given up on trying to change anyone's mind.

I spent years as a graduate student in a philosophy PhD program, and what I found is that, essentially, no professional philosopher changes any other professional philosopher's mind about anything important, ever. We're just endlessly arguing. Intelligently, usually respectfully arguing, but accomplishing nothing, getting nowhere. And philosophers are supposed to be, at least nominally, the most "rational" among us.

This is not to say that philosophers never change their minds: they occasionally do. But not as a result of arguing! It's usually more self-correction than other-correction.

I think it's better to read books than to argue. There's less personal ego involved, because you can "engage" with the author of a book in a way that's not like a sporting event. There's no winner and loser. You don't have to admit to the author that you were wrong, because you never even have to talk to the author, and the author will probably never even know that you read the book. You're almost forced to argue with yourself in this situation. You can change your own mind even if you can't change other minds.

Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by gverrilla on Saturday October 15, 2022 @10:15PM (#33220508)
Philosophers are paid thinkers, and they fulfill an important social function, like theologians to a God, in this case the Market. To understand them it's important to pay attention to what they ignore, most importantly: this is where all of them will agree - pawns in the great game being played by the Invisible Hand against itself.
Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by mistermann on Sunday October 16, 2022 @01:00AM (#33221155)
Are there any examples of specific things philosophy tends to lack discussion or are you just speaking in general?
Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by adrianN on Sunday October 16, 2022 @12:19AM (#33220995)
When you argue publicly, your goal shouldn't be to change your opponent's view, but to influence the people in the audience who don't have a strong opinion yet.
Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by darkerside on Sunday October 16, 2022 @07:55AM (#33222905)
I've decided that I can never expect to change someone's mind. But, I can introduce factors that are new to them that they will later consider and may change their mind.
Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by mozey on Sunday October 16, 2022 @04:12AM (#33222007)
> philosophers never change their minds: they occasionally do. But not as a result of arguing! It's usually more self-correction than other-correction

So, as a rational philosopher you're not trying to express an absolute truth that is generally applicable. Rather, you're iterating towards the most accurate and appropriate expression of yourself. Hmm, I think I've heard that philosophy before... existentialism?

Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by lapcat on Sunday October 16, 2022 @08:02AM (#33222934)
> So, as a rational philosopher you're not trying to express an absolute truth that is generally applicable.

How did you get this from what I said?

Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by minifridge on Sunday October 16, 2022 @07:12AM (#33222741)
I am trying to assess whether philosophers not changing their minds is something that is desirable or not. On one hand, they represent their theses after long periods of introspection and studying. On the other hand, their virtue signaling propensity may relate to various ego ambitions.

Definitely, debate for the shake of debate feels like an excercise for the philosopher rather than identifying why different views exist and where these fall short. In the long term, it may lead to change of the philosopher. Given everybody keeps an open mind, I don't think that this is necessary a bad thing.

Re:A Gentler, Better Way to Change Minds by lapcat on Sunday October 16, 2022 @08:03AM (#33222943)
> their virtue signaling propensity

What does this mean?