News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:What Is It Like to Have a Brain?: Nineteen Ways of Lookin... by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Friday October 14, 2022 @09:56PM (#33210874)
I'm not a philosopher, but arguments for the hard problem always come off as very circular to me. And when I dig deeper, it essentially boils down to "but it sure feels like there are qualia, so there must be"

Look, it certainly feels that way to me too. But that's not an argument. It's not even evidence. It also feels like it's impossible for me not to exist, and yet the evidence has me entirely convinced that will happen one day.

In any case, as a non-philosopher I can only gather that among philosophers, this is a highly contentious issue in philosophy of mind, and let the sides try to convince me.

When I read Dennett, he uses an immense breadth of knowledge on neural anatomy, computation, evolution, and cognitive psychology.

When I read arguments from the likes of Chalmers and Searle, I find highly contrived, seemingly circular thought experiments that are purposely constructed to purport their argument as fundamentally true. Feels more like theology to me.

Re:What Is It Like to Have a Brain?: Nineteen Ways of Lookin... by PaulDavisThe1st on Friday October 14, 2022 @10:07PM (#33210943)
> it essentially boils down to "but it sure feels like there are qualia, so there must be"

no. The argument is that "it feels like something to be me", and then to ask "how can it be possible to feel anything?"

qualia is a term from philosophy that is essentially a synonym for "having an experience" or "it is like something to be X"

nobody says "it feels like there are qualia". the closest would be "i have experience, and we call that qualia"

Re:What Is It Like to Have a Brain?: Nineteen Ways of Lookin... by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Friday October 14, 2022 @10:22PM (#33211054)
Yeah yeah, semantics. Snore.

How about an objective argument that isn't dependent on assuming its own conclusions and sneaky, poorly defined and impossible thought experiments?

It's like arguing with a religious person about the existence of god.

Re:What Is It Like to Have a Brain?: Nineteen Ways of Lookin... by aeneasmackenzie on Friday October 14, 2022 @10:41PM (#33211193)
Where are you getting this? It’s not an argument, doesn’t have any conclusions and doesn’t require any though experiments. It is not semantics. Most attempts to dodge it are semantics though.
Re:What Is It Like to Have a Brain?: Nineteen Ways of Lookin... by mtlmtlmtlmtl on Friday October 14, 2022 @11:06PM (#33211334)
I made a point about the lack of philosophical consensus on this issue. And yes, the hard problem and also qualia depend on thought experiments like Mary's Room. When I dig past all the baroque philosophising all I find is philosophers not thinking objectively and instead being too misguided by their own experience.

Stop pretending the hard problem being a problem is some cut and dry thing. It simply is not.

And I'll generally side with the philosopher who understands more about how actual brains work, which is clearly Dennett.

Mary's room, The Chinese Room and friends seem designed around fundamental misunderstandings of how the brain, psychology and computation actually work.

They're designed to evoke a sort of visceral reaction. "Of course Mary won't understand what it's like to see red". But once you dig into the details of it, the logic breaks down.