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Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by pjc50 on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @11:23AM (#33178342)
Only once they started investigating him.

The problem is that partisanship and racism made it OK to investigate left-wing and black leaders on spurious grounds. However, eventually a right-wing leader managed to ignore the law blatantly and importantly enough to be investigated : and at that point the right turned against the FBI.

There's no principle, only partisanship. Kind of a disaster for the rule of law.

Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by prange on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @11:30AM (#33178448)
When the FBI is defunded, there will be nobody to investigate right wing leaders when they blatantly ignore the law.

But hey, let’s cross that bridge when we get there.

Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by the_only_law on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @11:33AM (#33178486)
And when the FBI blatantly ignores the law?

I’d have a lot less of a problem with some of these federal agencies if they’d prosecute the criminals in their own ranks.

Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by prange on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @11:35AM (#33178536)
That does seem like Trump’s position - wrongdoing at the FBI means they shouldn’t investigate politicians like him.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by the_optimist on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @12:51PM (#33179674)
This doesn't "seem" like anyone's position, neither stated explicitly nor implied. You've invented this.
Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by Banyonite on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @01:37PM (#33180329)
Right wing, left wing, meh. To me (i.e. Opinion), it's difficult at times to distinguish between the two when looking at the highest echelon on each side.

I think my slide into cynicism regarding humans who achieve power, regardless of their stated political philosophies and alignments, started after finishing "The Dictator's Handbook". I read here some posts advocating getting rid of this or that, or saying we should do it "this way", but even though I agree in a wishful kind of way, it's just not how human beings are wired... No matter how virtuous a system may be, it seems to take only the inevitable one or two odd instances of corruption to start the rot that will bring it down.

Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by prange on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @02:18PM (#33180851)
> it seems to take only the inevitable one or two odd instances of corruption to start the rot that will bring it down

This seems to be based on the premise that there could ever be a system that was somehow perfectly free or corruption to begin with.

I think that’s far fetched. I think all human systems are messy and are going to contain some instances of corruption.

The question is simply whether the level of corruption reaches the level that cancels out the benefits of the system as a whole, or not.

Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by Banyonite on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @03:49PM (#33182082)
>> I think that’s far fetched.

I like to think of it as wishful thinking. I fantasize about winning the lottery, too.

>> The question is simply whether the level of corruption reaches the level...

Yeah, agreed. I couldn't point to a single instance where an attempt to eliminate corruption did not eventually spawn unintended (bad) consequences. Working to manage it seems to be the best alternative.

Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by prange on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @05:43PM (#33183892)
> Working to manage it seems to be the best alternative.

Yeah - I tend to agree.

Re:FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows by Maursault on Wednesday October 12, 2022 @12:45PM (#33179583)
> The problem is that partisanship and racism made it OK to investigate left-wing and black leaders on spurious grounds.

The major trend in these comments is the FBI and the government were bad, and are still bad, and the only solution is to dismantle them, but these commenters are too late. Where were these revolutionaries in 1968? Hoover died in 1972 and so did his fascist policies.

But you nailed it. While the Civil Rights Movement was in full swing, institutional racism in executive agencies was still the rule rather than the exception.

I think it is interesting how that contrasts with minority member success stories in entertainment. In this[1] rehearsal take for a track on Franklin's debut album, we can hear fascinating avant garden social hieracrchy.

Remember that in 1960, even though first developed in the 1940's, multitracking was cutting-edge technology, and multitrack decks were still rare. The modern recording process of scratch track replacement and instrument isolation and separation hadn't yet been developed. Music performances were recorded live in the studio with all the musicians performing in the same tracking room, playing simultaneously together with or without being physically separated by gobos ("go betweens"). Franklin sits at a piano, playing and singing simultaneously, with her own single microphone, and the Ray Bryant Combo itself probably only had one microphone, with both ultimately mixed down to mono. There is no monitoring for the artists, no headphone mixes, and everyone still has to be able to hear everyone else, and Franklin has to play and sing above the accompaniment to be able to hear herself. Hammond speaks from the control room over a PA in the tracking room in deference to Franklin.

But what it is abundantly clear is that, judiciously but humbly so, Franklin is in charge. Columbia Records and producer John Hammond put a young 18yo black woman in charge of a band's and her own studio performances in late 1960," while 8 years later the government is still notably racist and paranoid.

In any regard, while institutional racism still exists in government, it is a shadow of its former ubiquity, except perhaps in unsophisticated rural sheriffs departments. In comparison of then to today, the FBI is now one of the more enlightened agencies, even with only about 20% of its agents minority members. Institutional racism remains, but it has become the exception, and racist policy and language and acts are held to scrutiny; participants are held accountable and extirpated from the ranks.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5tYO7eKt6A