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Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by bergenty on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:15PM (#33166874)
I think it’s the opposite. Hiring the best people invariably leads to hiring a very diverse team. This results in some people (mainly white men) feeling like they are being left out when they really weren’t the best fit but in the past may have picked over someone else. Loss of privilege hurts and these articles are pushback against that.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by Manuel_D on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:26PM (#33167059)
> This results in some people (mainly white men) feeling like they are being left out when they really weren’t the best fit but in the past may have picked over someone else.

There would be merit to this line of thinking, if the diversity initiatives came in the form of anonymizing resumes and interviews (which is easier to do with remote interviews). But that's not the case. More often than not, diversity initiatives come in the form of quotas or penalties for hiring or promoting too many "non-diverse" people. And those penalties often kick in at levels of representation lower than "non-diverse" people's representation in the candidate pool. This is why I'm not irked by over-representation of Asians in tech. They're not advantaged relative to whites, if anything they're penalized for their race (at a past company asian males were categorized as "ND", Negative-Diversity even more undesirable than white males).

However, this is often not how diversity initiatives work. More often than not, they're not aimed at eliminating discrimination, they're aimed at mandating it: attaching bonuses to hires and promotions of particular races and genders, or achieving specific representation numbers (AKA quotas). This isn't eliminating discrimination, this is creating it.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by winternett on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:42PM (#33167351)
If you think white men have it hard... Try being a black woman.

Your rosy portrayal of white struggle is deeply mis-informed... People struggle because of corporate cost-cutting strategies, not because minority hires are taking jobs from white men in droves.

A lot of the posts in this thread are evoquing memories from Birth of a Nation... geesis.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by omegaworks on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:41PM (#33167338)
>More often than not, diversity initiatives come in the form of quotas or penalties for hiring or promoting too many "non-diverse" people.

This is literally not the case for the author. From the article:

>I told HR that I had considered it and I believed my recommendation was correct. HR said “OK, then we don’t need to change anything. I just wanted to check that you had considered them.”

That's literally all the author had to do. He made up the idea that it had an impact on his ability to advance in his career in his own mind.

>Again, there was no quota, but it seemed clear that promoting this person would have made HR and my corporate vice president happy.

It only "seemed clear." Weasel words. Engaging in the hyperbolic. This entire discussion is predicated on the fabrication that there is some racialized penalization system in place. It is scaremongering, nothing more than balking at the requirement to do the bare minimum.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by Manuel_D on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:50PM (#33167481)
Because explicit quotas are illegal, they're often conveyed ambiguously. "You don't need to hire X% of Y group. But hiring X% of Y group would demonstrate inclusivity, which is one of the core company values. And upholding our core company values is crucial to advancement."

Also, as per "Diversity Slating Guidelines" quotas are indeed being used. They require at least one Black or Latin candidate, and one female candidate. If there's only 4 people on the slate, this could mean that 50% of the pool is subject to racial or gender quotas.

There's more context behind Microsoft's diversity initiatives. Hiring managers were given bonuses for hiring diverse applicants. Or conversely, they were penalized for hiring non-diverse applications: https://qz.com/1598345/microsoft-staff-are-openly-questionin...

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by DebtDeflation on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:58PM (#33167606)
This is how literally everything in corporate America works. You start with a good idea. It gets turned into a metric. Targets for this metric are assigned at various levels in the management hierarchy. Bonuses are made dependent upon meeting the target for the metric. Eventually everyone forgets the initial objective and just focuses on managing the metric. I work in consulting, client satisfaction is obviously very important, leadership made the determination that NPS is the best way to measure csat, we all have NPS targets, our bonuses are tied to them, so what does everyone do? They only send NPS surveys to specific clients they know will give a good score and then they spend time and effort to make sure the client follows up and does in fact give a good score. Everyone manages the metric, same as with the DE&I stuff.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by int_19h on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @08:54PM (#33171335)
What's especially troubling is that blind interviews and auditions, and other similar anonymizing techniques, are now being explicitly attacked from the DE&I perspective on the basis that they don't produce results that are "diverse enough".
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by pclmulqdq on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:31PM (#33167155)
I have found that this is absolutely true, but not in the way you are thinking.

The highest performing team I have been on had people from 4 continents, ran the gamut on political views, had disparate education levels (from literally a high school dropout to PhDs from prestigious schools), and had people of many races. It had no women and no black people. By the standards of HR, it was not a diverse team at all.

The DEI folks I have worked with want a very specific kind of diversity: They want you to hire people of all genders and colors, but only rich ones from a few schools. They think that school reputation and awards are a better measure of aptitude than an interview or a take-home test (claiming that the test or interviewer is biased).

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by inglor_cz on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:21PM (#33166987)
"Hiring the best people invariably leads to hiring a very diverse team."

Only the diversity may go along the lines that the contemporary DEI philosophy does not like or even accept.

E.g. a Ukrainian refugee, a kid of poor Korean shopkeepers, an ex-Muslim atheist who does not even want to pretend that he is still Muslim.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by cvalka on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:52PM (#33167510)
+1
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by crackercrews on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:20PM (#33166967)
> Hiring the best people invariably leads to hiring a very diverse team

If this is true, then I guess affirmative action isn't needed, right?

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by bergenty on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:31PM (#33167161)
There’s no affirmative action anywhere. What are you referring to?
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by andirk on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:30PM (#33167141)
Sure but keep in mind in a lot of tech positions, the oversaturation is Asian, Indian. Not white.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by epicureanideal on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:24PM (#33167039)
I don’t appreciate the casual racism in your post.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by bergenty on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:32PM (#33167195)
Every article I’ve ever read on pushback against DEI has been a white male author so it’s just “stats” as the sayings goes.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by ryan93 on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:49PM (#33167477)
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by noasaservice on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @02:46PM (#33167414)
What's "funny" about your comment is that there is no "white" race.

"Whiteness" was created in a Virginia 1691 law to be "not negroe and not indian". Naturally, that also expanded to be not: Jews, Asians, sometimes not Italians, usually not Irish, and absolutely no indigenous people of any sort.

Defining yourself by what peoples you exclude is the core kernel of racism. And that's what "white" means.

Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by epicureanideal on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @03:34PM (#33168172)
These poor tactics of rhetoric do not justify racism. I don’t believe this was an intellectually honest response.
Re:What diversity and inclusion means at Microsoft by bergenty on Tuesday October 11, 2022 @03:06PM (#33167730)
There’s no race either. Asian is not a race and neither is white but I’m using the current designation society uses.