The most sinister thing about it is that we do need to honor those people who work incredibly hard and undesirable jobs, but by compensating them, not just worshipping them like heroes. Mike Rowe and the cabal that funded his character attempt to make the viewer feel self-righteous satisfaction merely from empty recognition of merit.

He argues against a minimum wage because some jobs are ‘stepping stones,’ but this runs counter to his whole narrative. Further, a proper trade skill training infrastructure a la unions or guilds would allow for experience ranked compensation. I get that people are wary of corruption and protectionism in unions, but it seems relatively fair in an adversarial market system.

(I’m also aware that simply expressing the need for higher compensation/benefits here is going to sound like bootlicking to smug leftists, but I would respect the dirty job of literal bootlicking.)

The reason I as a dev earn a lot more than our order picker where I work is that the software I have built is speeding up everything. I created massive improvements in efficiency. My high salary is justified because my work has a much bigger impact on the finances.

It is that simple. I interview often to get a true market rate. Nobody would pay me what I'm making if the market for devs wasn't this good.

You're paid what it costs for you not to work somewhere else. This is largely decoupled from how much value you create.

The only kind of compensation that is correlated to value are sales commissions, which most devs don't make.

A lot of us get deluded from the fact that we're highly skilled labor that takes a ton of training and skill sets most people don't have, while at the moment we make products with zero marginal costs. It's not the latter that's as important as the former.

> You're paid what it costs for you not to work somewhere else. This is largely decoupled from how much value you create.

I bet quite a number of HNers have liked a given workplace, but done the "job boomerang" where they jumped over to a much higher paying (but less desirable to them) job, only to jump back to their preferred place at much MUCH higher pay.

I hate interviewing as much as the next person, but it is the only way to actually get closer to what one is worth.

Trying to just save up for when the AI gets so good all of us will be going to FCs like this story /s

> is that the software I have built is speeding up everything.

Your high salary isn't "justified" by anything except current market supply and demand.

Which is to some extent, very much the natural case in point: a software developer is no value to me if what I need is a carpenter.

Supply and demand only work in the short term as an explanation why something costs the amount it does _right now_. Once enough time has passed for the markets to adjust then there is something fundamental that causes them to be stuck at a given level.

Software development is applied autism. There aren't many people on the spectrum and the ones of us lucky enough to be interested in computers (instead of say model trains) are making out like bandits because there's no one else who could do our jobs.

OP already covered why there's such a high demand for us. When you have a limited supply and unlimited demand wages increase. Or to put it another way: there are no other professions that can make 10 million for their employers in an afternoon by thinking really hard.

> Supply and demand only work in the short term as an explanation why something costs the amount it does _right now_. Once enough time has passed for the markets to adjust then there is something fundamental that causes them to be stuck at a given level.

[citation needed]

> Software development is applied autism.

[citation needed]

> Or to put it another way: there are no other professions that can make 10 million for their employers in an afternoon by thinking really hard.

The entire finance industry called and wants to have a word. Not that I'm a fan of theirs, but perhaps you should think harder next time before you post.

The financial industry doesn't make money out of bits and bytes. They make money out of other money and lose all of it every 10 years or so. We're seeing it real time today hilariously enough.

so how much does an $avgDev make?

A pretty average number of course.

It's not propaganda, it's a perspective. He's pretty involved in activism on the behalf of trades work, not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign.

> not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign.

Uh huh. Here's his "worker's pledge." It is literally "be a good little peasant worker drone" bullshit:

    I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time. I am alive. I walk the Earth. I live in America. Above all things, I am grateful.

    I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing more. I also understand that "happiness" and the "pursuit of happiness" are not the same thing.

    I believe there is no such thing as a "bad job." I believe that all jobs are opportunities, and it's up to me to make the best of them.

    I do not "follow my passion." I bring it with me. I believe that any job can be done with passion and enthusiasm.

    I deplore debt, and do all I can to avoid it. I would rather live in a tent and eat beans than borrow money to pay for a lifestyle I can't afford.

    I believe that my safety is my responsibility. I understand that being in "compliance" does not necessarily mean I'm out of danger.

    I believe the best way to distinguish myself at work is to show up early, stay late, and cheerfully volunteer for every crappy task there is.

    I believe the most annoying sounds in the world are whining and complaining. I will never make them. If I am unhappy in my work, I will either find a new job, or find a way to be happy.

    I believe that my education is my responsibility, and absolutely critical to my success. I am resolved to learn as much as I can from whatever source is available to me. I will never stop learning, and understand that library cards are free.

    I believe that I am a product of my choices – not my circumstances. I will never blame anyone for my shortcomings or the challenges I face. And I will never accept the credit for something I didn’t do.

    I understand the world is not fair, and I’m OK with that. I do not resent the success of others.

    I believe that all people are created equal. I also believe that all people make choices. Some choose to be lazy. Some choose to sleep in. I choose to work my butt off.

I find this to be empowering, not offensive. Seems like it's mostly telling you that some things are in your control and some aren't, and that you're responsible for the stuff that's in your control. Frankly, this would be great for an entrepreneur.

I've had plenty of crappy jobs/bosses, but I can't think of one job where being bitter, entitled, or negative would have helped me.

It can be empowering if you take it at face value. The obvious subtext is that it is something used to discourage the worker from seeking collective action or improving their working conditions. If you applied these ideas in real life we'd still be living with Victorian-style working conditions, and we'd be unable to do anything at all against structural economic problems that determine livelihoods way more than any personal responsibility or gumption.

Heck even the part about showing up early etc. to distinguish yourself is naïve even in the best light when you've spent time at a job.

"I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time...I live in America." And this is the point where my bullshit detector overheated and exploded.

You have to understand that most Americans are indoctrinated to believe that America is “the best” from the moment they are born. I have lived and worked in the US, Europe, and Australia and can truthfully say that you have won the lottery if you are born in any of the rich western democratic country. And I personally don’t put the US as #1 on that list.

Oh I've lived here my whole life, and trust me, I know the score.

> The dude is literally bankrolled by the Koch Industries.

This is just a straw man. Who cares who pays him? I could say the same thing for:

Typescript. It's literally bankrolled by Microsoft, insert quip that says Typescript devs can't have good intentions here

Tensorflow. It's literally bankrolled by Google, insert quip that says tensorflow devs can't have good intentions here

React. It's literally bankrolled by Facebook/Meta, insert quip that says React Framework devs can't have good intentions here

Etc.

Maybe you don't care, but I care and so do many people. I'd argue you should also care.

Knowing where the money comes from is fundamental is so many aspect of our society.

Getting a loan from a bank will require you to disclose some information about your money getting activities. Why? First to make sure nothing illegal is going on, and second to make sure you will be able to pay back the loan.

Running your political campaign will require you to disclose how it's financed. Again why? Because people realized long ago that you don't bite the hand that is feeding you or something. Meaning you should expect a strong bias by that politician for their backers.

And so why care about a public figure getting money from the Koch Industries? Because it adds a crucial information on how to process the opinions coming out of that public figure.

Yes it's possible that the source of money doesn't affect anything, but it's also highly possible that it does and many times it does, so why not care about it?

It’s not a straw man if I am replying directly to a claim:

> not just the mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign.

All of those are true! Those projects serve their corporate masters, not you-the-user.

If you get some benefit from using them as a dev, it's either incidental or part of a larger plan to lure you into their corporate "ecosystem" (think: why is React so much more dominant than Vue or Svelte?)

This was the first I'd heard of this and thought it sounded interesting, so I looked into it.

If I were a fact-checker, I guess I'd rate this as "mostly false". He's not "bankrolled by Koch Industries", but he runs a non-profit which publicly discloses donors and one of the Koch brothers donated some money to it.

But it did lead me down an interesting far-left rabbit hole, where the worldview is that a guy saying "respect people doing blue collar jobs" and encouraging people to keep working to improve their lives is treated as a nefarious enemy, so that was fun. A good reminder that QAnon doesn't have a monopoly an eyeroll-inducing political views.

What a hot take, I may have spent too much time on the internet myself today.

I didn't know about Mike Rowe before this post. Thanks.

Wiki says: <<He is known for his work on the Discovery Channel series Dirty Jobs and the series Somebody's Gotta Do It originally developed for CNN.>>

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rowe

Better than destroying your body for no pay in a command economy.

More capitalist propaganda. You're incorrect... workers do get paid in a command economy. Of course there isn't a command economy on earth, so this is pointless whataboutism on your part, but like I said... capitalist propaganda.

Considering how much physical jobs can pay, I’m not sure where you got “low pay” from.

Plenty of non-physical jobs that are low pay as well.

I'd never heard of this guy before this morning (and I was happier then). Given his image, you'd think his Wikipedia page would be quick mention if he'd ever held a blue-collar job himself. Far as I can tell, however, he has only worked a a TV personality and opera singer.

Given that, and the fact that his spiel below is exactly what I'd want my employees to believe if I were a rich sociopath, my conclusion is that he's a shill, pure and simple.