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Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by Nomentatus on Saturday October 01, 2022 @07:27PM (#33051132)
I think the necessary background fact here is that chlorophyll is a miracle chemical because it's safe. Not 'cause it's efficient. It's not efficient at splitting water, about 1%, but unlike so many other chemicals that can split water when hit with photons, it can perform the job while producing very few harmful free radicals. That's chlorophyll's secret sauce. Since green is a relatively high frequency that's intense in sunlight, it's safer to filter that color out. "Noise" here means a less smooth chemical process will produce more free radicals.
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by caper on Saturday October 01, 2022 @08:06PM (#33051365)
Interesting - why would fluctuation of the energy flow into the biochemical cascade cause an increase in free radical production?

If this is the case then seems a lot more likely and evolutionarily sound than the efficiency interpretation; unless there is some second order effect of the rate of photosynthesis on its efficiency/completion that couple with some sort of initial energy barrier I struggle to see how smoothing fluctuations by using non-proximal wavelenghts would be more efficient than allowing fluctuations with greater absorption across the spectrum (and so greater net energy absorption). Some more basic survival mechanism like the free radical one you propose just seems to be more intuitive. With green colouration a circumstantial bedfellow of the other chemical properties rather than the master. Still speculative of course.

Keen to hear your thoughts.

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by currenciessfe on Saturday October 01, 2022 @09:04PM (#33051713)
Eneregy is conserved. If it "misses" the reaction center, it will hit something else like a stray bullet.

> Non-photochemical quenching (NPQ) is a mechanism employed by plants and algae to protect themselves from the adverse effects of high light intensity. It involves the quenching of singlet excited state chlorophylls (Chl) via enhanced internal conversion to the ground state (non-radiative decay), thus harmlessly dissipating excess excitation energy as heat through molecular vibrations. NPQ occurs in almost all photosynthetic eukaryotes (algae and plants), and helps to regulate and protect photosynthesis in environments where light energy absorption exceeds the capacity for light utilization in photosynthesis.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-photochemical_quenching

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by Nomentatus on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:24AM (#33052840)
currenciessfe 's answer above is better than this crude comment, but: just the extra heat randomizing reactions would be a problem.
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by throwaway0asd on Sunday October 02, 2022 @01:00AM (#33053008)
More specifically green is far higher in luminosity, which is about radiation power and not frequency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminosity

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by sigmoid10 on Sunday October 02, 2022 @05:00AM (#33054231)
It actually isn't. The dominant frequency of solar irradiation is dependent on choice of spectral variables and could just as well be said to be in the infrared, when plotted as a function of frequency. So with the same argument, plants would be better off reflecting that. Especially when you consider that absorption happens as transitions between energy levels (i.e. frequencies) in molecules. However, in truth it simply doesn't make sense to talk about point frequencies in a density distribution.

[1] https://www.oceanopticsbook.info/view/light-and-radiometry/l...

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by throwaway0asd on Sunday October 02, 2022 @06:33AM (#33054704)
The math to compare colors is more simple than that: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#relativeluminancedef

Blue is a slightly higher frequency than both red and green but green has a dramatically higher luminosity. Simple arithmetic applied against that less simple luminosity formula allows for contrast comparisons.

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by sigmoid10 on Friday October 07, 2022 @04:08AM (#33118587)
We're still talking about the solar power density here though. Ofc blue is a higher frequency than green, noone disputes that. But you can't technically say green is high(er) in the solar power spectrum.
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by Razengan on Sunday October 02, 2022 @06:16AM (#33054619)
Hah I love these cycles of [dis]information and correction on Reddit/HN:

> Commenter A: [cool fact]

> Reader: Oh! Interesting!

> Commenter B: Actually no

> Reader: Oh...

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by Nomentatus on Sunday October 02, 2022 @01:51AM (#33053240)
The energy of (one photon worth) of electromagnetic energy does indeed increase with frequency. So green is more problematic than the same number of red photons. But you're right that if there were few green photons coming in and a ton of red, red might be blocked, and green not.
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by blowski on Saturday October 01, 2022 @08:04PM (#33051352)
For the novices like me, whats the benefit in producing fewer free radicals?
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by smiley1437 on Saturday October 01, 2022 @09:19PM (#33051799)
Free radicals are extremely reactive and can form bonds in undesirable ways in cellular chemistry, which is generally bad for the organism, potentially causing all sorts of cell damage.

Cells produce anti-oxidant defenses to regulate free radicals such as the delightfully named "Superoxide Dismutase" enzyme:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superoxide_dismutase

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by anonymous_sorry on Sunday October 02, 2022 @02:42AM (#33053524)
As an aside, there is poor evidence that consumption or topical application of anything artificially high in anti-oxidants does any good for healthy people, although you see "antioxidants" used to sell crap all the time.

Maintaining the right balance between free radicals and anti-oxidants is the sort of thing biology is pretty good at on its own. Trying to put a finger on the scales in one direction or another is probably pointless at best.

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by Ekaros on Sunday October 02, 2022 @03:10AM (#33053679)
When thinking about it it seems pretty weird. Wouldn't most free radicals either enter via lungs or digestive tracts? And those will have plenty of stuff to react before any anti-oxidant can get to work... And anti-oxidants spreading through body on other hand seems bit worrying.
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by tpm on Sunday October 02, 2022 @05:46AM (#33054482)
Most free radicals are products of reactions inside the body and the body does have mechanisms to deal with them, even if not 100% sometimes.
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by teaearlgraycold on Sunday October 02, 2022 @03:06AM (#33053642)
My understanding is free radicals are literally atom sized bombs. Bombs are trouble because they lead to dangerously quick oxidation, transforming a solid into a gas in milliseconds.

Now consider you are a cell. A lot of things you consider important are individual molecules. Free radicals are oxygen ions. So get a few of those ions inside of you and your important molecules are getting oxidized. They’re getting ripped apart. The same as a grenade in a trench. But at the indivisible scale.

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by Nomentatus on Sunday October 02, 2022 @12:26AM (#33052851)
Free radicals - in this case often oxyen or hydrogen on its own - are highly reactive as others have said. What that means is that they'll grab atoms from anything ripping pretty much any other molecules in the area apart, and releasing a punch of energy when they do that, which could do further damage.
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by pid_0 on Saturday October 01, 2022 @08:07PM (#33051374)
Free radicals will cause cell damage and thus death or cancer
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by wuschel on Sunday October 02, 2022 @03:58AM (#33053903)
Would you have a reference to comparative studies re the “safety” of chlorophyll in contrast to some other energy transformers, say, mitochondria?
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by hun3 on Saturday October 01, 2022 @10:44PM (#33052339)
> Since green is a relatively high frequency that's intense in sunlight, it's safer to filter that color out.

What about (ultra-)violet light?

Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by deepsun on Saturday October 01, 2022 @11:46PM (#33052634)
I suspect ozone layer filters it out.
Re:Why are plants green? To reduce the noise in photosynthesis by hun3 on Sunday October 02, 2022 @10:44AM (#33056267)
Ozone layer does not completely filter out UV-A (~400nm), and most certainly visible light.