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Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by SpicyLemonZest on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @04:19PM (#33012742)
I don't think there can be a rigid distinction between "I don't want to see that" and "actual harm". We can presumably agree that it would be wrong if Google put up posters of naked women all over the office, and that the EEOC is right to prohibit such things as a hostile work environment. But what "actual harm" could you point to beyond the fact that the posters are offensive and people don't want to see them? I understand the appeal of being able to take a "live and let live" attitude without considering these kind of tricky values judgments, but I just don't see how you can avoid it.
Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by Brian_K_White on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @08:24PM (#33014892)
It's an interesting idea to follow.

So a buisiness that isn't any of the many that might legitimately have pictures of naked women in their offices or other public spaces where employees have to work, has them.

What makes them a hostile work environment? Hostile or harmful to who, and by what mechanism?

I'll proceed on the assumption that it causes women to feel threatened by the men in the area and/or the owners/managers who installed the posters.

This line of reasoning is essentially the same as blaming women for the rapes they endure because they should have made sure they didn't look attractive to any men, instead of holding men to a standard to be responsible for their actions.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by Volundr on Wednesday September 28, 2022 @08:54PM (#33015098)
The harm in your example is that by putting up these posters of naked women being valued only for their body, you send the message that that is how women are seen here. A woman is likely to feel she is at risk of being objectified the same as the women you've put on the wall as literal objects.

I'm confused what the analogous harm is to you when two adults have consensual sex behind closed doors where you can't see or know about it.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by Brian_K_White on Thursday September 29, 2022 @07:41AM (#33019212)
Who said consentual sex causes any harm? I'm arguing the opposite.

The argument that women will interpret the posters as a message that they are seen as objects is potentially interesting, but then what about all the women who work at modelling agencies and ad agencies and actual sex related businesses?

The argument that women will feel threatened because the posters will cause the men to attack them, or even just low level menace them, is saying that men are helpless reacting animals and are not responsible for their actions, which is the same argument as saying women are responsible for rape by not dressing badly enough.

These theoretical posters are simply and merely inappropriate for facililitating the work being done in most workplaces. They are unwelcome but it's merely because they are a distraction and an annoyance. It doesn't cause any sort of harm that can justify any legal consequences.

There is no argument for making them illegal, and in fact they're already not because there are tons of businesses where such images are central to the business. The same image will be interpreted as porn in one room while it's just the businesses product on the wall at countless clothing manufacturers. So the image itself can not be said to posess any intrinsic harm or evil.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by Volundr on Thursday September 29, 2022 @01:35PM (#33024319)
> Who said consentual sex causes any harm? I'm arguing the opposite.

The comment I'm replying to is. They are arguing that prostitution is somehow harmful to them and should be banned. I'll note the analogy of a poster on the wall of ones workplace is pretty poor, unless someone is advocating that prostitutes should be manning the hallways of Google. If you don't want to be exposed to prostitution it's easy to avoid. If you don't want to be exposed to the decoration of your place of work it's a lot harder.

> The argument that women will interpret the posters as a message that they are seen as objects is potentially interesting, but then what about all the women who work at modelling agencies and ad agencies and actual sex related businesses?

You mean the women who signed up for this line of work voluntarily rather than walking into their software engineering job and finding these posters on the wall? I think there's a clear differentiation between the two. Google probably shouldn't decorate it's offices with graphic images of say, people being operated on, I think that'd arguably be just as hostile a work environment. That doesn't mean that every surgeon is being abused.

> So the image itself can not be said to posess any intrinsic harm or evil.

Agreed the harm is not in the inherit to the image. As with many (most?) human interactions, context matters.

Re:Why are sex workers forced to wear a financial scarlet le... by Brian_K_White on Friday September 30, 2022 @09:31AM (#33034606)
"> Who said consentual sex causes any harm? I'm arguing the opposite.

The comment I'm replying to is."

Doh, right, sorry.