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Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by aussiesnack on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @06:34PM (#32932475)
Which means that Google can simply lock you out of your Chromebook, for entirely arbitrary (and not even necessarily disclosed) reasons, at any moment. There's no practical avenue of appeal - Google is vast and even governments have trouble keeping it to heel. Individuals have no chance against these obdurate nation-sized entities. I think any Chromebook purchase, beyond the most cheap and cheerful throwaway, would be a crazy hostage to fortune.
Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by isr on Thursday September 22, 2022 @01:51AM (#32935172)
Actually, I don't believe this is accurate.

There is a single "desktop" user on chrome os - 'chronos'. Even when you login with different accounts, everything is still running as chronos (id 1000).

What happens is that there are separate loopback filesystems, 1 per each "google account", all stored under /mnt/stateful_partition. These filesystems are encrypted (ecryptfs). When you login, the relevant filesystem is decrypted and bind mounted over /home/chronos.

All of this is done locally, no network queries involved. I don't think that you lose your local files if your google account is somehow borked. You just lose the online aspects of that.

But as a general rule, your overall point about not being too reliant on googlopoly is one which should be well taken.

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by aussiesnack on Thursday September 22, 2022 @02:14AM (#32935305)
Interesting, thanks. That's something then - I don't know much about ChromeOS. I've considered it for parents, but in the end have opted for something modest running one Linux or another.

A true laptop-appliance with an immutable-ish OS, decent security and fast/easy updates is actually a quite compelling notion. I'd be pretty uncomfortable with it not being local-first for user data though.

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by isr on Thursday September 22, 2022 @09:04AM (#32938249)
Actually, in many ways, what you're asking for in your 2nd paragraph is pretty much what chrome os is.

BTW, chrome os is actually gentoo linux under the hood (with the portage pkg manager stripped out at the end). At one time, there was even a shell script doing the rounds which put portage back on it.

Your larger point re: Google reliance is still a valid one, but one which holds true even if you run chrome on another linux distro. If you really look at it, I'm not sure if a chromebook is less private than that.

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by aussiesnack on Friday September 23, 2022 @06:38PM (#32957916)
> Actually, in many ways, what you're asking for in your 2nd paragraph is pretty much what chrome os is.

Indeed, that was my point. Something like ChromeOS is a great idea.

> Your larger point re: Google reliance is still a valid one, but one which holds true even if you run chrome on another linux distro. If you really look at it, I'm not sure if a chromebook is less private than that.

Privacy's not my main emphasis. The world is in a state of gradual physical collapse. My (wealthy) region has had infrastructure destroyed by successive waves of fire and flood, and it will never recover (eg. we'll never again have year-round roads or always-on internet). We're the vanguard of what is coming to all. Entirely network-dependent devices aren't appropriate technology for our time. a fortiori for single-corporation-dependent devices.

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by isr on Friday September 23, 2022 @09:28PM (#32958976)
Ah, I see where you're coming from.

Coincidentally, I've been doing a deep dive into offline-first, mesh & p2p related projects (nncp, yggdrasil, etc).

Would be interesting to see a linux distro with builtin plumbing for such things. Eg: constant snapshots, cached locally and then forwarded on to your other devices (once they are network reachable), all within a local mesh network that you define, which sits on top of the public internet (and bypasses NAT and firewalls)

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by grey_earthling on Thursday September 22, 2022 @04:51AM (#32936363)
> A true laptop-appliance with an immutable-ish OS, decent security and fast/easy updates is actually a quite compelling notion. I'd be pretty uncomfortable with it not being local-first for user data though.

Fedora Silverblue may suit your needs.

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by aussiesnack on Thursday September 22, 2022 @05:52AM (#32936741)
I was thinking more for the sort of non-technical users a Chromebook would suit, which at a minimum means pre-installed with little or no admin needed. Chromebooks are a great idea, it's just a pity they're so deeply intertwined with Google services (though given way the consumer market has developed, some such corporate entanglement is I suppose inevitable).
Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by grey_earthling on Thursday September 22, 2022 @08:05PM (#32946255)
Ah, yeah. I don't think anyone sells laptops with Silverblue pre-installed, so that would be a hurdle. After that though, IMO Silverblue fits the bill very well, and may surprise you with how polished its update/upgrade flow is, especially compared to Debian-family distros.
Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by aussiesnack on Thursday September 22, 2022 @09:22PM (#32946859)
Regular Fedora Workstation is my standard OS these days, so I suspect Silverblue may be in my own future. I look forward to giving it a try when time allows & curiosity overwhelms!

Aside from Linux distros per se though, I think there's a need for something like ChromeOS (preinstalled, appliance-like, as foolproof as possible), but without the deep single-corp dependence. Unfortunately I don't think the market in its current state is capable of filling this need.

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @07:48PM (#32933147)
Not going to comment much on how much of a risk it is to use a Google product in this way. Just going to say that ChromeOS is pretty much designed to work with Google's primary apps: GMail, Drive, Hangouts (or whatever it's called these days), etc. So my point is that if you want to stay out of the Google ecosystem, it wouldn't make sense to use ChromeOS in any case.
Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by aussiesnack on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @09:01PM (#32933636)
A willingness to selectively use the Google ecosystem, versus signing over your bare ability to even use a purchased general-purpose computing device entirely to Google's pleasure, are two distinctly different things though.

I'm not making a 'Google is evil' argument (that would be a different conversation). I just couldn't bear to trust any corporation with that degree of arbitrary power over physical objects in my possession, regardless of whether or not I'd use their webapps. The power imbalance is just too great. Google (or Microsoft or Apple) is, in practise if not in theory, above any law that can be wielded by individuals.

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by pksebben on Thursday September 22, 2022 @02:16AM (#32935320)
I'm with you. We're driving into the world of Snow Crash like Tina Belcher, and all I hear when folks talk about how marginally better for browsing these devices are is: "ehhhhhhhhhhhhh".

On a more specific (read: paranoid) note, these security chips give me the heebie jeebies. How long until I need to register a program hash with the FAANG-that-be just to run my own software?

Re:The Framework Laptop Chromebook Edition by afandian on Thursday September 22, 2022 @02:58AM (#32935567)
I only asked in the first place because so many people say that it’s good for Linux. It seems like that’s predicated on a Google account.