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Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by koonsolo on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @05:45AM (#32922727)
Russians are very inconsistent in their lying. On one hand they say they are already fighting NATO troops, and on the other hand they say that NATO needs to stay away else they will use all means possible.

I was in favour that NATO would secure the skies, but that is now too late I guess.

Ukraine didn't even receive the latest and best equipment such as battle tanks. Once they receive those (I'm confident they will), it will make it easier for them to retake land.

Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by DoingIsLearning on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @06:18AM (#32922998)
> I was in favour that NATO would secure the skies

'Securing' skies is a term that has been repeated a lot but in practice it means potentially shooting down Russian aircrafts to 'secure' a corridor.

This would mean a NATO member doing an act of war against Russia _without_ the purpose of defending a NATO member state.

The main argument is where do you draw the line? Why did NATO not provide air support for Georgia in South Ossetia, or for Crimea in 2014 but now does so for Donetsk in 2022?

In my opinion doing so would just give Russian propaganda a stronger argument that NATO is intended on attacking Russia rather than securing it's member states.

Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by koonsolo on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @06:49AM (#32923217)
Just because we closed our eyes in the past doesn't mean we need to continue doing that. It's the straw that breaks the camels back.

Shooting down Russian airplanes over Ukrainian territory when they are literally bombing Ukraine is not "an act of war against Russia". That's a bit of a far stretch don't you think?

If NATO bombs Belarus and Russian airplanes defend, you can hardly call that "Russian war against NATO".

Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by rascul on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @08:53AM (#32924383)
> Shooting down Russian airplanes over Ukrainian territory when they are literally bombing Ukraine is not "an act of war against Russia". That's a bit of a far stretch don't you think?

It is an act of war. It is not a far stretch.

Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by koonsolo on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @11:22AM (#32926414)
It is clearly not threatening "the territorial integrity of Russia", as Russia likes to call it. Because those planes get attacked over enemy territory.
Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by rascul on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @12:31PM (#32927580)
What does that have to do with it? One military shooting down another military's aircraft is an act of war.
Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by koonsolo on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:24PM (#32928344)
Clearly not: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_sh...

Russia did nothing, as usual.

Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by fellellor on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @01:15PM (#32928212)
Unless NATO says sorry whenever they shoot down a Russian plane like Turkey did.
Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by DoingIsLearning on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @07:43AM (#32923634)
> If NATO bombs Belarus and Russian airplanes defend, you can hardly call that "Russian war against NATO".

That is literally a casus belli. It very much is an act of war.

Re:President Putin has announced a partial mobilization in R... by koonsolo on Wednesday September 21, 2022 @11:26AM (#32926470)
According to Russia, even sending weapons is an act of war. It all has degrees. There is a clear difference between attacking Russia on their own territory vs defening Ukraine over Ukraine territory, with their consent. Russia would do nothing, just like when Moskva was sunk, just like when airfields on annexed Crimea were attacked.

Edit: So what would happen if Russia flies a fighterjet over NATO territory and they shoot it down. An act of war?