Wow. I’m sure if we were having this discussion face to face my comments wouldn’t have come off as elitist. There surely was an elitist crew in punk culture but what I was trying to describe is how I see that subcultures exist- better or worse. Liking music that wasn’t popular and could only be found in out of the way venues wasn’t elitist, but more of a common interest in spending one’s free time flipping through record racks and watching bands in dank sometimes dangerous venues. The DIY culture you reference was a central part of it. In my circles it was less exclusionary and more ‘neglected’, because the music didn’t sound like Phil Colins or Metallica- it was sloppy and weird in most peoples eyes. I don’t revere ‘punk’ . I have no allegiance to punk, as it’s hypocracy came to equal that of broader society (paraphrasing DH Pelligro IIRC). It didn’t become trendy it spawned trendy ‘offspring’.